China & apple lead the charge against Free Speach, Free Expression & Free Market

[Cyrus Ramsey]

Very interesting article.

http://www.dailytech.com/China+and+Apple+Lead+the+Charge+Against+Free+Speec h+Free+Expression+and+a+Free+Market/article15539.htm

[milo]

What's your opinion/view point of this article Rj?

Do you really believe that Apple is just like China?

[mikemcgrath]

yeah, that's a bit far fetched. that guy really hates apple.

[Cyrus Ramsey]

I think Apple does extend a fair amount of censorship in regards to its allowed Apps in it's store, those who can use it's software, and those who try to create competition. I have never liked Apples practices, mostly because I think OSX is a brilliant OS. But the fact that Apple refuses to let others produce machines to let normal people be able to purchase and use it's software is just wrong. Apple has put it's self up on a pedestal and has told much of of the world that it is elite and that most computer users are not good enough or rich enough to use it's software. It then goes further to not allow content IT deems inaapropriate for it's users. They block Christian software, porn software, and much more, very similar to China.

While I feel that comparing Apple to China is a bit much as Apple has not slaughtered thousands if not millions for its way of life, I can def see the similarities between the two when it comes to censorship.

[milo]

Did you know that Apple allows program developers the use of the same program they use to make apps for the iphone and ipods? They allow people to use the exact same program....... Apple wants developers to be able to make games for the phone and ipods and that's all there is to it... They want there apps to be better then any other company out there, and a step towards that is allowing any developer the use of the same program they use. What else can they do???

I think a lot of this Apple trash talk is a bunch of bulllshit.... If you don't like Apple, just don't buy from them. Maybe it's just me, but do you see Apple users taking the time out of there lifes to post and make articles such as this?

And to say Apple is some horrible company is like saying Starbucks is some horrible company. Both companies do far more then we know to benefit the market and economy. Hell if you really want to bash a company, bash Wal-Mart! They go in to small cities, pop up a Wal-Mart and BAM small local businesses can no longer hang with the cheap prices Wal-Mart is able to get. Wal-Mart is your typical "American" store. Sell more sell more sell more! Lower prices lower prices lower prices! Use up more resources use up more resource, you get the picture.

Apple just allowed the upgrade to 3.0 for FREE and they're releasing the new Apple OS Snow Leopard in September for $30! Did everyone get to upgrade from XP to Vista for $30?

And censorship.... What exactly are they censoring? I would bet it's safe to say that they're censoring BULLSHIT..... Would you want to promote trash?

This Apple bashing is retarded

[milo]

It's fucked up that I feel slightly bad for even responding to this stupid ass article and arguing with you over it RJ.

I've ignored a bunch of these stupid posts, but c'mon man....

Stop the Apple bashing, you don't see us bashing your precious Windows. It's insulting to Apple users

[mikemcgrath]

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=CZGIn9bpALo

[sir.real]

the way i understand it is apple blocks apps from its platform because of stability. they have built their technology stance off using some of the best out there in emerging hardware and software. some try to pass that off as an "apple tax", but rj should know from working with pc's that if you're about saving money almost exclusively and letting anything & everything install on your pc (windows based), then you are just headed for a headache. many actually.

i don't own a mac. i would if i had that chunk of change to plop down all at once on one, aside from the standard set that i need for my livelihood. the fact is, i like tinkering. trying new/better hardware one piece at a time... changing configurations... running into roadblocks and demolishing them. you certainly can't do this on an apple device as easily, but there is plenty of room to dig deep if you want to. OSX is built on a kernel (UNIX) derived from the BSD family. there is a bash shell under the flashy desktop. if you really want to, i understand you can get many open source apps running on/under osx.. apple is not about that. stability and ease of use. you will not bring down your entire operating system for something that is tied to your web browser on a mac... plain and simple. you can't say the same about windows up through, about, xp. that's how apple likes to remain to the average user. that also fosters dependability.

milo.... rj is self employed and has a stable business because of dependability. he does so because he provides solutions that people are familiar with, and most importantly, want. so i'm sure he understands. he's just sharing information that he comes across and this one just happened to be twisted up enough that he thought it would provoke conversation, but definitely shouldn't get emotional. the writer just happened to include apple, rather than many of the other corporations that may have been a much better fit for this. ;)

[milo]

milo.... rj is self employed and has a stable business because of dependability. he does so because he provides solutions that people are familiar with, and most importantly, want. so i'm sure he understands. he's just sharing information that he comes across and this one just happened to be twisted up enough that he thought it would provoke conversation, but definitely shouldn't get emotional. the writer just happened to include apple, rather than many of the other corporations that may have been a much better fit for this. ;)



You may very well be right, but I have a feeling that your not.... Why would he only share information that bashes Apple? What about all of the info that bashes Windows and such? If he posted articles that talk both good and bad about both Apple and Windows then I would agree that he is just trying to make conversation.

[mikemcgrath]

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=4h-YsC3Ksi8&feature=related

[Cyrus Ramsey]

You may very well be right, but I have a feeling that your not.... Why would he only share information that bashes Apple? What about all of the info that bashes Windows and such? If he posted articles that talk both good and bad about both Apple and Windows then I would agree that he is just trying to make conversation.

If people need me to find the Windows bashing pieces then I can, it's to easy as they are EVERYWHERE. I can't talk to a single Mac owner without him or her getting all high and mighty on me about their over priced piece of crap Mac. The majority of Apple owners are snobs that think they are better then, and know more then the rest of the computing world.

I post articles mostly pertaining to Apple as I want Apples owners to be aware that their almighty computer company is no better then any of the others. Mac's do get viruses, they do crash, they have inferior security software etc.... And to top it off, Apple highly censors the content available for download in it's App store.

You say not to buy Apple if I don't like them. But that is the problem. I want to be able to sell computers to people with what they want in them. And people want custom built, not so expensive laptops and desktops that run OSX and they want them now. But if I build one single machine that runs OSX and sell it to somebody (and these days, that is extremly easy to do), Apple can and will sue the shit out of me. WTF?

Why can't I express my right to a free market by selling to the customers what they want? Why does Apple have to charge the ridicules prices they do for inferior machines? Why won't they allow several of the programs my students have created to be sold online? Why why why? What makes Apple so fucking special?

There is tons of dirt available about Windows, you don't need me to find it for you. Microsoft is no fucking saint in all this. But those of us who use and prefer Windows computers have been at the blunt end of trash talk and stupid jokes from Apple patrons for years. Now here i am, giving a little back, and people start crying.

When the first Mac guy -vs- Fat PC Man ads came out, they really stretched the truth in many of them, and in some cases, flat out lied to gain more customers. They came back again with new ad after new add, all straight up attacking PC"s and Windows users, and again, often time lying. For a while Microsoft didn't do anything about it. For 4 years Apple continually attacked PC's and Windows. Then finally when Microsoft dumped a few million into a new ad campaign, Apple started crying about it. Mac users threw up their arms in protest. And now all of a sudden Microsoft is the big bad guy, cuz the preppy little fucks in their turtle necks got their feelings hurt.

With the original post, all I intended to do was like somebody said, raise a conversation. Ya I pull out way more Apple threads then Windows, because nobody else does. I don't think it's a matter of Mac owners on here being mad at me for the info I find. I think it's possible some of them might be starting to realize that spending hundreds if not thousands more for a computer with the exact same hardware as it's pc counterpart, less security and all the problems, maybe wasn't such a good idea.

I don't fully agree with the writer of the original article. Like I previously stated, it's not really fair to compare an over rated American corporation to a Communist government that has in the past slaughtered people to keep in power. But as I also stated, when it comes to censorship and free market, I can see where they are similar.

they're releasing the new Apple OS Snow Leopard in September for $30! Did everyone get to upgrade from XP to Vista for $30

Errrr no. Every tech site on the web has summed up Snow Leopard to nothing more then a slight but much needed update to OSX that amounts to the same sort of update all Windows users get for free in each new service pack. Snow Leopard introduced no new OS kernal and minimal overall enhancements to the OS. It was mostly nothing more then major and long overdue security updates. The type of updates that Windows users receive on a weekly basis, and bundled in service packs if needed.

When Windows users went from XP to Vista it was like switching from OS 9 or whatever it was to OSX. Not the little cat updates in between.

Apple just allowed the upgrade to 3.0 for FREE

I assume you are referring to the iPhone and iPod touch software correct? In that case, all owners of Windows Mobile phones also get free upgrades. My phone originally came with Windows Mobile 6.0 which I upgraded to Win Moblie 6.5 and then 6.7 and hopefully soon, 7.0. That was all free, and software upgrades for Zunes are likewise free.

So what else ya got?

[milo]

Even though you can bash Windows, you won't because your trying to sell YOUR computers to people, gotcha. Why is that any better then Apple not wanting people to buy there OS and build a machine with it and sell it for less then they are? Call me crazy but it sounds like Apple is trying to protect there market just like you....


I'm pretty sure at this point, nobody think Apples are virus free.... We all know they can get viruses, but the amount of viruses are less... Your not educating anybody on that one.


What if you developed an OS and sold it in your computers, and someone took your OS, built a computer by themselves, and then sold it for less then what your selling it for? Wouldn't that piss you off? You would probably sue them as well right? Windows may allow this to happen, and that is up to Windows to decide if that's ok to do or not.... Why you gotta say Apple is being a dick and should allow anybody to buy there OS and sell it in a machine that they made?


And about Snow Leopard, I do not know exactly what it entails at this time, but Apple does have updates pretty much weekly for free just like the ones your talking about Windows having. So if this Snow Leopard comes out and it's nothing more then some simple update like your talking about, then I will bite my tongue on it, but something tells me it's going to be more then some simple update...


And when I was speaking about Apple letting users upgrade to 3.0 for free that was me explaining that Apple isn't this completely money hungry company that's only about themselves. They could've charged people for it...


And man, I'm not trying to have some nerd discussion as I am by no means a computer genius. My argument is that your always posting shit that bashes on Apple and even posting stupid shit like the article you posted.... It's ridiculous and insulting, and I would like you to know it...


Props for doing your things with your computers and such man, but jesus, your Apple shit is getting old.


Oh and I'm sorry your running into Apple owning Windows bashers, but are you seeing that going on within these forums? Your the only one bashing computers here man...

[Cyrus Ramsey]

Even though you can bash Windows, you won't because your trying to sell YOUR computers to people, gotcha. Why is that any better then Apple not wanting people to buy there OS and build a machine with it and sell it for less then they are? Call me crazy but it sounds like Apple is trying to protect there market just like you....

What if you developed an OS and sold it in your computers, and someone took your OS, built a computer by themselves, and then sold it for less then what your selling it for? Wouldn't that piss you off? You would probably sue them as well right? Windows may allow this to happen, and that is up to Windows to decide if that's ok to do or not.... Why you gotta say Apple is being a dick and should allow anybody to buy there OS and sell it in a machine that they made?

If I develop my own OS I will try to mimic what Microsoft did and sell it on the market just like any other software, thus trying to increase my sales and eventually lead to my dominance of the OS market and resulting in me becoming a billionaire.

Apple stands on the edge of doing just that. OSX even with it's well noted security flaws is, like I said before, a brilliant OS. One that I would even use if I wasn't required to purchase an over priced system to use it. Apple could release OSX now, with a list of hardware compatible to work with it, and be ready to dominate the market. They would make billions turning Jobs into the next Gates and dethroning Microsoft as the king of OSs.

That being said. Your right, I do want to sell my brand of computers. But I don't just sell Windows machines. I am more then happy to save a customer money and offer them a Linux based system instead. You see, even though I am a Microsoft business partner, I won't be sued by Microsoft for selling a system with Linux and vice versa. I have customers that want and Rj Systems LLC computer preloaded with OSX. And I want to sell them that as well. I would love to be able to sell my computers with OSX but sadly, I can't. It is the only OS on the market that I can not install in one of my custom systems. They have locked out anybody other then Apple from building systems to meet their customers demands. I have lost customers due to the fact that I can't build a system with OSX. They have then gone and purchased a system from Apple with lessor specs then what I offered, and paying more money for it, just so they can have OSX. That is a good example of Apple stifling the free market. Granted there is nothing illegal about it, but it does hurt. What hurts more is that they are the only major player that does that.




And about Snow Leopard, I do not know exactly what it entails at this time, but Apple does have updates pretty much weekly for free just like the ones your talking about Windows having. So if this Snow Leopard comes out and it's nothing more then some simple update like your talking about, then I will bite my tongue on it, but something tells me it's going to be more then some simple update...

Ok first here is a brief description of what Snow Leopard entails, and even in Apples own words, "it's really just an enhancement and refinement of Leopard". Much like what Service Pack 2 was for Windows XP only XP Service Pack 2 was free. Anyways, http://arstechnica.com/apple/news/2009/06/more-of-those-snow-leopard-enhancements-and-refinements.ars

And about the security and those Apple weekly updates - http://www.dailytech.com/Apple+Patches+Java+Hole+Nearly+a+Year+After+Initia l+Discovery/article15427.htm


And when I was speaking about Apple letting users upgrade to 3.0 for free that was me explaining that Apple isn't this completely money hungry company that's only about themselves. They could've charged people for it...

Ok, thats cool. But when Apple makes between $400 and $500 profit for every iPhone sold, then they can surely afford to give something away once in awhile. http://www.dailytech.com/Apple+Makes+Over+400+Profit+per+16+GB+IPhone+500+p er+32+GB+Model/article15528.htm


And man, I'm not trying to have some nerd discussion as I am by no means a computer genius. My argument is that your always posting shit that bashes on Apple and even posting stupid shit like the article you posted.... It's ridiculous and insulting, and I would like you to know it...

Ok, the original article posted was a bit over the top, and I admitted that I don't fully agree with the author. I don't really see how anybody could. The whole purpose of posting that, was to raise some eyebrows about Apple's practices, regardless if you think they are right or not. But most of the stories I post are legit, and informal. I am always the first to admit that Apple puts out good products. But often times Apple will hide problems with their products. That's what Apple does, it's part of the reason why they have such a good image. If peoples perception of a company's products is flawless then said company will earn more business. But then those same people will become disgruntled when their product breaks. There is nothing stopping you from posting Microsoft or Linux bashing articles. Hell I have a great one for you, the new price points released for the upcoming Windows 7 launch suck ass. While Windows 7 may be the best OS from Microsoft yet, they sure are raping their customers with the cost of upgrading. http://www.dailytech.com/NPD+Analyst+Says+Windows+7+Pricing+is+Way+Too+Much/article15537.htm


Props for doing your things with your computers and such man, but jesus, your Apple shit is getting old.


Oh and I'm sorry your running into Apple owning Windows bashers, but are you seeing that going on within these forums? Your the only one bashing computers here man...

Well I have to admit, it hasn't happened in some time, but it used to all the time. All the same, everything I have posted about Apple up till today has been a real world issue. And they keep popping up, but yet nobody says anything about it. I'm sorry if you don't like it. But us Windows users had to face the facts that Windows was far far far from being a perfect OS a long time ago. Mac users need to face that now.

[Bucho]

i've messed with macs, i've messed with pcs....i prefer the pcs personally. i've had my laptop for 2 1/2 years now with almost zero issues and i still prefer the way it functions over anything apple's done. for me, it's just a personal preference in how my work gets streamlined...whether it be my dj-ing/recording, or my writing, or internet surfing, i've enjoyed the pc much more by leaps and bounds.

[mikemcgrath]

if you start a company and have trademarks on the products you make, then you get to sue people who use your shit. that's the american way, dude.