Att: Promoters

[edw!n]

So how much you people pay local Dj's to play at your events?

I've been quiet enough about this subject, but lets talk about it. It's been a long long time since I've gotten paid to play at any event in KC. So usually Im the one paying to play at a party because I usually go and buy new records to play even if Im not getting payed. I spend about $70 to $100 on records the day of an event just to play at that night. I think paying a local $150 to play is fair. If you're putting an event together it means you want good music there, new music. $50 to play aint cutting it. Being a Dj is an expensive ass hobby so if you want to have quality music pay your fucking DJ's bitches!!!!

[r0t8]

$150 would be fair if it was a small event with like 300 people. at large ~2,000 person events like most at the uptown, fair for a local dj with a name would be around $500. really depends on how many people you can bring to the party. if you bring 50 people at $20 a head, that\'s $1,000 you\'re bringing to the register. 50 percent commission for a performer is fairly low.

[edw!n]

hahhaa I think any promoter in this town would shit their pant if a locaql asked for that much. But I think $500 is more than fair in that case.

[edw!n]

And to all the Dj\'s that play for free, I urge all of you the only real way to stop this shit is for you to quit playin for free.

[Cyrus Ramsey]

I played for free all the time from 95 to 98. It was mostly to get my name out their and to get a demand for my dj services at shows. I started charging in 99 and i started my fees at $100. I\'ll still only charge $100 if its only for an hour, cuz i can knock out an hour of music in my sleep. Most of the clubs i play in now pay $150 - $250 a gig, but that is for a minimum of 4 hours of dj work.

I think its fine for mr newbie dj no firends to not charge anything. If people dont know who he or she is then why would a promoter want to pay him or her if they wont pull any crowd? However if you take any of the established dj\'s in this city that have been playing out for several years and people recognize their name then they should get a minimum of $100 if its only for an hour and its real early in the night. Anything more then an hour or if their playing more in the prime time slots then it should be a minimum of $150 with $250 prefered.

Also, if you tell a dj in person that you will pay him a set amount of money to play, that is considered a legal contract in a court of law. Weither a paper has been signed or not doesnt matter, if you say you are going to pay a certain dj a certain amount of dollars and then publicly advertise that dj\'s name on any sort of promotional material, you are bound by law to hold up to your end of the verbal agreement.

Many of us know what will happen if a promoter say he will pay me and then they renig on the deal. That shit is getting all to common again and it needs to stop.

[Edited on 6/21/2004 by RjBass]

[r0t8]

3x $2,000 headliners = $6,000
6x $500 local djs = $3,000
venue cost = $5,000
sound rental = $5,000
lighting rental = $5,000
$20 tickets x1,500 people = $30,000

so the promoter is coming out $6,000 ahead in that case. of course these are approx. figures...

[Edited on 21/6/2004 by r0t8]

[edw!n]

Lurkers feel free to reply :P

[phelyne]

so this is what i have to say. i had a long long reply all ready but it was deleted when this froze up on me, so fuck it, here we go again.

for all of you lame promotors, i cant wait till the day every local dj boycots your stupid ass events and you realize that headliners who youve booked over and over over again and taxing thirsty people on water with boring lights and blow speakers just doesnt cut it anymore for a 20-30 dollar event.

we are not idiots. we know your making bank on a lot of these parties. and your being so fucking rude as to approach local djs who have played out allll over the country and locally hundreds of times to volunteer their time, skill, and valuable belongings so you can fucking take home thousands of dollars in one night, then turn around and lie about how much money you made so you wont have to give any of them any money and if you do, only 20-100 bucks.

BULLSHIT BULLSHIT WACK WACK

for all you djs who play for free. be on top of your bizness. if a promotor asked a dj to play for free and that dj said no, then the promotor asked every other dj and they said no, one of those djs would get their demand met because there is not party with out entertainment.

and promotors, you can build a mega dj if you were not so fucking quick to cockblock any of the ambitious talent right before your eyes. just imagine, having an raw from your own city? wow. wouldnt that be dope. to have a donald glaude or dave aude or shit, a reid speed from your hometown? damn, wouldnt that be a sweet dream come true. but NO. you want to hold everyone down so you can continue to make thousands of dollars a night without splitting 300-1000 dollars between all the locals who spend sooo much time and effort to impress the audience so you can profit. but at the end of the night, those happy kids will remember the dj long before who put the party on. so, its that a bit backwards?

and you do realize that even though fliers reach a large amount of people. word of mouth really helps the attendance. well, you are ultimately getting a good percentage of attendees because they no someone involved with the party, one way or another. stop relying on wack headliners to sustain your scene cuz what you should be doing is encouraging local growth by supporting your local talent instead of what your really doing which is getting everyone to move away or stop with their passsion all together.

and kanasas city hass sooooo much talent its a shame that its being smothered by greeedy thugs.

and for the locals who dont charge, if you cared about your art/skill/passion, you would be way on top of your game. why do you think people in other cities get paid. its not cuz they let promotors persuade them that they arnt good enough for money. its cuz its their shit and if you respect it, youll treat it how any other art is treated, by paying top dollar for top talent. and being a headliner doesnt mean they are top talent. shit, anyone who plays outta the city or state could be a headliner, no matter how dedicated or motivated or skilled they are.

kansas city is an awesome place but needs a lot A LOT a lot of work. people are not happy here because all of their good intentions are being drowned by people with alterior motives. STOP IT.

(yes, i am the bitch that just said all of that. and i meant every word of it. i give props to several hard working people and crews here, but in a nutshell, the problem is bigger than the few real soldiers who are tryin to change things into a positive light. if you agree with anything anyone has bitched about in regards to this and have done nothing, you are the enemy. create change or stfu)

phe
motherfuckin
lyne

[phelyne]

for direct flames, you can email me at dellayela@yahoo.com

peace and have a wonderful day

phelyne

[edw!n]

Big up Phelyne!!! Spoken like a true soldier. You\'re right on a lot of things. Promoters act like they doin Dj\'s a favor for including them in their shows. Fuck that!!! Im doing you a favor bitch Im the one playing in front of everyone, with your fucked up feedback turntables, no monitors, cant even get backstage without hearing shit from security, no free drinks or water. And I cant get my friends on the guest list even as Im playing for free. Fuck you!!! hehehehehehe

[edw!n]

oh lets just put friendships aside for this one. we\'re talking business here. I see lots of people here have been reading this thread but only 3 other people besides me have been replying. WTF? We\'re al friends here right.

[phelyne]

thats okay edwin. i mean, we play everyweek on international internet radio, and guess what?

no one has to pay to listen to it.

amazing

www.kunninmindz.com

check out edw!n and don pms thursdays from 4-7 pm and i go on right after that from 7-9 pm.

[edw!n]

thats okay edwin. i mean, we play everyweek on international internet radio, and guess what?

no one has to pay to listen to it.

amazing

www.kunninmindz.com

check out edw!n and don pms thursdays from 4-7 pm and i go on right after that from 7-9 pm.



Boooooooooom!!!

Badgers? We dont need no stinking Badgers!!!

[phelyne]

oh lets just put friendships aside for this one. we\'re talking business here. I see lots of people here have been reading this thread but only 3 other people besides me have been replying. WTF? We\'re al friends here right.

well, we might all be firends, or pretend friends. but no one is saying shit cuz theyre scared. scared to admit to themselves the truth of the matter. its not about egos

its about much much much more than egos.

its about something a lot more scaryier(haha)

respect and honesty and not being a sheep when people are fucking you over

[Cyrus Ramsey]

word^^^

Thats why i aint afraid to grab a promoter and beat the shit out of him if he aint acting right.

[phelyne]

you know, i think i have seen you almost do that before.

you rock rj. still in the game. <: a true soldier.

i salute you

over

out

phelyne

[djxanlucero]

i must agree with you guys , it is absolutely fucking rediculous that the bulk of the money isn\'t going to the performers. NOBODY IS GOING TO THESE SHOWS TO SEE ANY FUCKING PROMOTER OR EVENT COORDINATOR !!!!!!!! and i feel for some of you cats out there that truely have talent and aren\'t getting any monitary compensation.

THANK GOD i have awsome management that completely takes care of me as far as booking and payment are conserned. XL

[raverjennee]

I am glad to hear some of you speaking out. If you don\'t.... then the same thing that happened in STL will happen here. You will all play your hearts out for free, and the the promoters get rich and dissapear. It\'s cool if you\'re new and need exposure, but we have so many talented DJs here in KC that get paid shit. Its about time someone spoke up. GO YOU! I would hate to see this town get turned into parties that were all about who is making the most money. It got bad in STL and their scene went to shit. Way to speak up for yourselves!

[Benito Hussolini]

I agree with everything you posted Edwin & Phe...

This is such a problem that I\'m surprised something hasn\'t been said/done yet. The way locals are treated in this city DISGUSTS me. Obviously, a couple of the people in this thread are jungle djs, but this issue is by no means limited to that genre.

I\'m not gonna repeat myself, but PROMOTERS need to read what my associates have posted. They way the local djs in the area are treated is undermining the whole foundation that the rave/electronic scene is built on. Let me explain:

-Big djs (Derrick Carter, Dieselboy..etc) make records.
-Local djs (nationwide) are the bulk consumers of these records. If only working djs (dj who have paying gigs 4+ time a month) bought records, the industry would be SHIT. Although it is close right now.
-Our support of the \"system\" allows the upper eschelon djs to get well known through our playing of the records...inturn get gigs....make $$$$.
-Well then we have SHADY FUCKIN PROMOTERS who do not get that. They assume locals are worth very little, and refuse to pay them.
-Then what happens is that locals A) get fed up and quit B)Are broke and quit and stop buying records.
-What happens then is the FOUNDATION of the electronic music scene gets eroded. Big djs can no longer sell records..reputations cannot be built or expanded...and things start to go south really fast.
-I\'ll use the ever popular Joey Beltram as an example. Well old Joey wouldn\'t be worth a damn if it wasn\'t for a little record called \"Energy Flash\"...you may have heard of it. Well, all us struggling locals went and bought it, and played it and before long Joey got famous. Same goes with Josh Wink and the hits he had like \"Higher State of Conciousness\"

What promoters fail to understand is that locals built the scene. Everyone was just a local once, and many of them had the help of intelligent, honest promoters to help them (behind most big djs was a good promoter...not always but many times) That is why we will NEVER have a world-class dj from this town (EXCEPT FOR PAT NICE....but he has been in the game for 14 YEARS and has undeniable talent) No one else from this town will ever amount to shit outside the mid-west. Not me...not you...UNLESS...some intelligent promoter realizes the calibre of talent we have here (I would put someone like Edwin up against almost any jungle dj any day. Same goes for a few others) and supports it through the right support. Obviously production talent a must (guess what, you will never be well known unless you can produce. EVER)

At this point I will shift focus from promoters to djs....
There are local djs that are even a bigger problem than promoters. There are a group who never ask to be paid. Many are good friends of mine...but they are fucking it up for everyone. By never charging, promoters here will never see a VALUE in locals. \"Why pay when I can get it for free right?\" That is the attitude that will ruin all of this, whatever is left. Jenz broke the numbers down...its not about the money, I\'ve done enough shows to know that.

If the locals finally just stopped taking no payment, things could change. This only applies to those who have paid their dues. Noobie openers always play for free. Unfortunately, there is great talent in this city that will never be allowed to reach its potential.

Anyway HERE IS A BIG FUCK YOU TO PROMOTERS THAT DON\'T PAY THE LOCALS YOU KNOW WHO YOU ARE...IT WILL ALL COME BACK ON YOU..JUST WAIT

P.S. Xan who is your management?

[Bucho]

you know, i\'m not new, but i definitely need the exposure...i\'ve played some great parties for free and i understand that promoters don\'t always break even..it happens, that\'s the entertainment business for ya...

but until recently, i had no problems playin for free...since i\'m gettin older, my bills are more serious (new car being THE most important one), this has become more of a lifestyle than the fun hobby it started out as. like i said before, after the party this weekend (Bangin Under The Stars), i\'m gonna have to start askin for payment. i can\'t afford to buy new records without some compensation and it\'s fuckin difficult to hold down a residency in this town and get paid well for it *pretty sure we drank our compensation at The Empire Room, eh Rob and RJ? :P *

anyway, i fully agree. i won\'t point fingers because i have no one i\'ve got beef with on this. i\'ve been happy so far with the promoters i\'ve had dealings with...a few of them have really surprised me and paid me when i expected nothing at all, but yeah...locals need love too ;) if only to keep our wax new and fresh to make that dancefloor look like an ocean of bodies jackin it all night long.

[milo]

Im not scared to post on this one and make myself look like an idiot, the reason why i havent is because i didnt see the thread.

I for one am a Dj and promoter. I totally see were you are coming from there are some people in the industry who are not djs and do not know how much money it takes to do what we do on the dj side of things, I AM NOT POINTING FINGERS AT ANYONE WHEN I SAY THAT just stating a fact. Ive been asked to donate me equipment on several occasions and I really hate doing it because its all i got and its costed me thousands of dollars and whos gonna replace it if some hot shot headliner breaks it NOBODY!

I will say this every event time my events made profit my djs put money in the pocket, and this is a FACT! ask any of them ive paid atleast 20, and me being a dj I would be totally cool with that for a kc show, your going to buy the fucking plates regardless so dont blame it on the promoter for you buying records and not getting all your money back the next gig. plain in simple theres not enough money being made by the promoters in this city for everyone to get rich, there isnt anyone that i know of who throws our type of shows that gets rich anywhere in the U.S.

One other thing, if the promoter tells me its a non paying gig normally i will either take the gig or not because at that point theyve been honest with you and its up to you whether or not you do it. Now if i find out that other locals got paid that night and I was told no locals were I would be extremely pissed, but I would never take it as far as some people would and straight up punch them or some stupid ass shit, i would simply never play for them again.

The relatiionship djs and promoters have when they play locally has a lot to do with respect and respect is free and its something easy to do, if you make cash you need to pay your locals otherwise its disrespectful and greedy as fuck. Choose your moves wisely because one day you will have shit on everyone and the walls will close in on you before you know it... afterall who can afford to bring in nationwide talent to play the entire show.... its kinda like changing your oil on time in your vehicle, its cheap compared to a new motor.. pay your locals they will play for cheaper than national talent and sometimes are just as good and have just as much pull as your national talent...

or we will end up with some djs who do have a large amount of talent and will straight up move out of here because they cant afford to do what they love, or its just gotten to the point were its not fun anymore so they will go somewhere were it is fun again. therefore de-evolution happens and thats just down right un-american hehe had to throw that in there :D

[joshchrans]

BUMP

[cQuence808]

I have to agree w/ everyone in this thread so far.

I have been playing reks for going on 4 yrs now.
And it isnt un-heard of that \" I WILL PLAY FOR FREE \".
I love playing for a crowd. It gets me the FUK off.
And Im sure to some degree or another,
thats why I CONTINUE to play out FOR FREE.

However.

A few of my peers have encouraged
me to ask for \" SOMETHING \".
Becuz, its too true.
The more of us actin as tho our talent aint worth shit,..
it never will be. There are a few promoters
who, \" do \" give a damn,...
& ALWAYS pay EVERYONE,.. who plays. I love those guys.
They pay for my phone / light / gas / food / records.

Ive played parties for every friggn
promoter in this town.
And a slew of different night clubs.
Money doesnt make me have a
better time, per se\',... but it DEFINITLY makes me play better.

If I am playing a HUGE party w/ 3 - 6 headliners,...
& Im not getting payed,....
OR COMPENSATED SOMEHOW
(5 person guestlist / free drinks )
I feel used. Unless however I know your
event has NO HEADLINERS & they
are chargin 5$ at the door.
At that point I dont care,.. cuz I know,..
that promoter will be lucky to break even.
I have played for friends for free of no charge
@ HUGE parties,...
& thats cool,.... but every show?
Thats being used. We all have bills to pay.
Or atleast I do.
And yea,... 1 record for 10.99 a pop aint cheap.
That means I can buy one hour of music
for about 100$. I dont buy new reks for shows,..
unless I am gettin payed.
It just wouldnt be finnacially smart.
I wont put myself in a $hole$ for a promoter @
HIS / HER event.

Paying rent on time is more important.

I have continiued to play for free in this town,..
cuz I love these kids,.. who come out regularly,....
who support the BACK BONE of what I do.

But like Bucho says,...none of us are
getting any younger,... we all have these grown up
things to attend to,.. plus were trying to be Rock Stars.
Or atleast I am.
Id like to see it all happen for us.
My biggest musical inspirations are my hommies here in KC.

They push me to make more of myself,..
in everyway.
And not only that,... they are so friggn talented!!**
Everyone reading this thread knows that.
Like PHE says,.. we cant grow unless we are being able
to buy the products we NEED to suceed.

Records.
Equiptment.
Cds.
Mastering cost.
Duplication cost.


I think I am fortunate to be able to play out as much as I do.
( YYYYYYYYYYYAAAAAAAYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYY )

I have seen my name around quite a bit in the last 2 yrs.
And I think it has more to do with the fact that PROMOTERS
know I will play for free.

Not cuz they think Im a great Dj.

At this point its all a matter of RESPECT.
If your party is BIG/HUGE,.....
you should offer your locals
SOMETHING.

I have yet to put a
price on my local gigs.
I dont want to have to either.

Its like,... we will help you if you HELP US.

OUT.

[Edited on 22/6/2004 by cQuence808]

[The Professor]

I can attest to Milo\'s truth...

[Kourtney]

i havent read the entire above, i will later

all i have to say is it is the sad result of a flooded market

for every one dj that wont play for free there are 2+ that will

so why pay for something when u dont have too

not saying it is right, just reality

kinda sad

[andrewboie]

last party I played at the promoter didn\'t even give me any gas money. and the lammie they gave me had no string for it, so i had to kinda just hold onto the goddamn thing all night.

i remember back in 2000 when i was getting $150 a gig. i had no skills at all and wasn\'t even using turntables.

i\'ve been grudingly accepting free bookings. i think it stinks that promoters shortchange their DJs but it\'s more important to me that techno be *heard*. cuz the kids around here have no clue. most of the promoters have no clue, even a lot of the DJs around here have no clue. they either think techno is entirely composed of banging scary shit, or they try to pass off whatever hard trance they\'re working with as techno. wish i could lock them all up in a big room and make them listen to Tresor records until they understand....oh wait, that\'s a gig.....

so yeah, i can\'t say no because i feel that techno will be forgotten around here....you cant throw a rock out here without hitting a jungle or house DJ, but i can count all the true techno DJs around here on 1 hand.

SHAMELESS PLUG new andrew boie mix coming soon! featuring deep, sensual progressive techno! /SHAMELESS PLUG

[Edited on 22/6/2004 by andrewboie]

[r0t8]

for every one dj that wont play for free there are 2+ that will

there really aren\'t that many local djs in this city who play out on a consistent or semi-consistent basis. what like, 15 maybe? if those 15 were to put their feet down, there would be no \"2+ other djs\" to take their place. if you ask me, if they don\'t want to represent themselves as professionals and pay a fair price, their event will probably suck anyways. i know i\'ve never gotten off playing for people who will dance to anything. kind of like sluts you know - waste of time.

[Edited on 22/6/2004 by r0t8]

[Kourtney]

^^ok yeah i just repeated everyone with the above but who cares

Ive been asked to donate me equipment on several occasions and I really hate doing it because its all i got and its costed me thousands of dollars and whos gonna replace it if some hot shot headliner breaks it NOBODY!

ummm.....why dont u make them sign a freaking contract that says if your shit gets fucked up they are liable. thats too much money to be risking in my opinion. u also have to think what are u getting in return? nodda from the sounds of it, so the least the begger can do is sign the dotted line that if something would happen to your shit while it is donated u aren\'t SOL. if something would happen, not only did u spend your time but on top of that u will leave with less than when u started cause now u have to fix your broken equipment.

if they won\'t sign it tell em to fuck themselves. u dont lose anything by not helping out, they do. ;)

[Kourtney]

okay skip two above to my last post^^

LOL

[Senseone]

There\'s not much I can add, as I\'m not a real DJ or promoter...our party on saturday and the ones before it, is/were to have a good time, and hopefully see everyone else have a good time....but, for the record, I pay my DJs....it\'s not always a lot, because it usually comes out of my pocket...but I am upfront about what I can and can\'t do and I\'m pretty sure anyone that I\'ve booked (even for other people) has gotten paid when we told them we were paying them.

All you guys that do play for cheap and free....thank you....without you, we wouldn\'t have much of a scene.

Andrew...We\'re flying in a SUPERSTAR techno DJ from CHICAGO to play for you on saturday, hopefully we\'ll see you out there.... :P

[Benito Hussolini]

I\'m glad so many people have decided to weigh in on this very important issue.

Except Kourtney. Being a DJs girlfriend does not mean you can give other djs advice. KTHXBYE.

But keeping on topic...I think a lot of it has to do with respect. Getting paid $20 for a small party that made little or no money means a hell of a lot more than $100 from a promoter who just raked in 10k in profit.

Just a simple token of respect goes a long ways, and all too often I have seen some of this towns greatest DJs get treated like SHIT by selfish promoters who aren\'t even paying them. I tell you this...if you aren\'t paying you better be fucking kind to me or I\'ll sick RJ on you! Seriously though, the stories I have heard from my close friends in the past couple weeks makes me sick. If you aren\'t gonna pay me, I better have a 5+ person list and couple free drinks. Otherwise go fuck yourself.

I am sooooo biting my tongue right now, but I would *really* like to hear what some of the other promoters in this great city of ours have to say. Becuase aside from Milo, you all have been pulling some WHACK ASS SHIT. Please, tell me why, or I can just start naming names which I always like to do. What are you gonna do?!? Book me and not pay me!?!?! AAAHHAHAHAHAHAHAHA

[sydeburnz]

well, i guess i can put in what cents i do have here. whether it be 2 or more, i guess that is to be determined. although i (or we, meaning syde-sho) may appear to be a consistent promoter in this area, we have yet to throw that many events. some of them in conjuction with others, some on our own. In the past year, we have done a few shows and I can kick you what our outcome was.

Last summer was You Are Here in conjuction with Milo and I believe every dj (except for the open deck bbq in the daytime) got at least gas money and we barely paid for cleanup and some landlord bribing that had to happen afterwards.

This year we did Synthesis with Free Agent at the 411. Now, there was a bit of money made on this one and all the dj\'s did get paid. A few even got more than they were promised because I shared my proceeds. In addition, there was a bonus paid to woody for hooking us up with a good deal on the agreement that if we did good, he would be taken care of - which he was.

Under Construction.....well, what can be said about that. We lost on a show that alot of people thought was a good concept. Just bad timing on a holiday weekend, but the fact remained that we came up short. All headliners and out of towners got paid, and any locals that did not get paid have either recieved some sort of arrangment or otherwise. If you are one of these dj\'s and feel this is not the case, please get ahold of me asap. But I am quite sure that we are good on this issue.

Thats all we have done in the area of events except for having a stage at the last Tribal Vision event, but it was a free party and everyone knew they were playing for free. But I still owe TV $50 for the generator rental. I haven\'t forgot about ya TIM!

[djxanlucero]

call em\' the fuck out Ben , if this issue needs to be resolved as a community then someone needs to be the one to drag it into the open.I\'m sure any promoter or Krew worth a shit in this city will be able to explain themselves and put to rest any questions or miss conceptions that are presented.....XL

[breakbotix]

if i had money to give my djs from sat. i would have given it to them. i lost quite a bit of money to bring someone sick n new to KC.

quite a bit of money was lost.

my djs were on an understanding that if i made any sort of cash, i\'d fix em out. if i made $100 it would have been split between all the locals.
but, sadly enough i lost overhalf of what i put into that show.
and the thing is i dont even give a fuck. because i brought one of the dopest dnb djs to ever play in kc. i was the first person to bring anyone from hospital records to kc. kids told me i brought a happiness to them that they havent felt in years.

and thats why i dont give a fuck.

but i\'m not out to make money off my shows. I\'m all about bringing TOP QUALITY DJs.

i guess its a bit diffrent when the promoter is out to make money.

as a dj i cannot play for free anymore...theres too much other shit i could be doing....now if another local promoter is bringing someone that mostlikely isnt going to make them $$$, then i\'m all about supporting them and playing for free. otherwise, all of us other djs with a \" name \" need to be charging...then there will be some sort of a \" market \" for djs.




cause if your throwin a party obviously just to make $$$...you can make sure all your djs are paid.

otherwise, you soon to make enemy with all the djs worth a shit here in KC. and its probably not a wise choice.




its like that...and thats the way it is.-RUN DMC

[Bucho]

i agree with xan...if we\'re a \"community\", this has got to be dragged out full on...no punches pulled, just straight rappin about it...i\'m not sayin it needs to get nasty and i definitely DON\"T think this thread needs to be \"swamped\" i think that would be a bad idea...but for a collective of people to achieve something, you gotta take the good with the bad...fortunately or unfortunately, this is the bad...let\'s get it on.

[raverjennee]

Just an Idea - and I\'m nobody here so you don\'t have to even consider it.... But Maybe if KC had some sort of \"meeting\" between DJs and promoters and talked out differences and ideas on how to make things better for everyone, that might help. Of course, we live in a world full of imperfection and Egos.... I mean there could be a standard percentage of what the headliner is getting paid given to the locals across the board. As far as a promoter losing money, that\'s the chance they take when they trow a party. No one wants to hear a promoter whine b/c they lost cash. Does it suck? Well sure, but when you consider some of these guys have made thousands on other parties, it all evens out. I threw parties with a group in STL and more often than not we lost cash, but we still paid what we offered everyone. It sucked, but it was nice to have that rapport with the locals and we knew they would play for us again. Promoters and talent have to respect each other, b/c if they don\'t that\'s going to show through in the vibe at the party. It always does. This is just my opinion, and like I said no one has to listen, but I thought maybe I could help.
-Shiney

[Benito Hussolini]

Let me just clear something up. I\'m not really so annoyed about all of this because of stuff that has happened to me...I have a GREAT job and make PLENTY of money, so its more an issue of respect for me. Not just a financial type of thing.

What really, really, really gets me pissed is how people have treated my close friends. Fuck with me...whatever. Fuck with my friends who have dedicated a TON of time to this shit and I get a little angry. I\'m sure by process of elimination you can guess who that is. I don\'t want to overstep my bounds and call someone out about an issue that doesn\'t involve me. Thats not my place, although sometimes I want to, I would however like to see the people who have been burned over and over say something about it. Some people on here have seriously wronged some good people and I just can\'t figure out why.

Milo, Burnz & Scott----You guys came forward with great responses. I really hoped to see people just think about how their actions impact the rest of us...whether that be on the djing OR promotions side.

Jennee-There has been attempts at a dialogue, and this one seems to be going well. Thanks for the input...I know that Stl has had some serious issues as of late.

[Kourtney]

Except Kourtney. Being a DJs girlfriend does not mean you can give other djs advice. KTHXBYE.

you really need to come up with a new \"dis\" cause that one is old.

plus i dont see where i gave u advice anyway

**tosses horse shit in bens direction**

http://www.addis-welt.de/smilie/smilie/tier/33.gif

back to topic and sorry for the commercial break :D

[raverjennee]

No problem.... I did forget to mention that what happens when promoters don\'t pay locals is this : The locals begin to \"boycott\" playing out in thier hometown. Next promoters get cheap or free Djs that just need to get exposure and they might not be very good yet. Then the kids who pay for these parties think the promoters can\'t book good talent and then the kids boycott certain promoters. Next thing you know - everyone is jaded and the scene sucks. I would really hate to see this ahppen and hope everyone can really work this out. Good luck with everything guys!

[roshi]

this rocks

phe
motherfuckin
lyne

[Bucho]

i rocked your mom.


this rocks

phe
motherfuckin
lyne

[roshi]

^^^ did you clean up after youself this time?

[Bucho]

nah...she did it for me :P

[Cyrus Ramsey]

Their are certain promoters in this town, especially from just this year alone, who have been pretty much blacklisted by the better of the local dj community. I hope things go in that direction too. The lack of respect some promoters are given to their local talent in this city is just wrong.

When Bucho, Rob, and I were doing Sunday nights down at the Empire Room we didnt make shit for cash. I think at most we all walked out of their with maybe $20 in our pockets. But we were hella drunk. If I cant afford to pay dj\'s that play for me at one specific event or another that Im doing, then Im sure to compensate them in other ways, guestlist, drinks etc... I\'ll even make sure they get some head in the backroom if it comes down to it.

Their are some good promoters out there though. The ones that have treated me with proper respect and who get my respect in return are Phuck Bed, U:Move, Syde-Sho, and most of the established nightclubs.

I have had some pretty serious issues with a few other promoters in this city, most of which you all have heard about. But fer real. Don\'t let some newbie promoter jack you on your cash. If they are going to step up and try to throw a party, don\'t give them any slack. Nobody gave me any slack when i first started throwing events back in the mid 90\'s. If I said I was going to pay, then I did, or I gave them whatever I could to ensure they at least went home feeling ok. I walked away loosing money more times then I did earning it. But thats the price you pay and the risk you take for throwing a party. Sometimes you win, most times you dont.

And after having gone to jail at least 5 times now over the past 10 years for this scene, and after having records stolen, equipment stolen or wrecked, friends lost, etc... im not given any promoter any slack any more. I have given to much and I wil not any more, at all.

Some say my fits of anger at a party twoards a promoter are from liquor or other substances, well no their not. Its from my vey serious lack of tolerance for shady ass promoters now.

Once a dj lets somebody know their not gonna take any shit, word gets around. All any local dj has to do is step up and not be a pussy. Let the promoter know how you feel, and if hey dont give then sue their ass, and if that doesnt wok, beat the shit out of em. They wont forget that.

[DeepConnections]

I have thrown plenty of events in this town and I can tell you that the fees that a local djs in Kansas City can really expect is alot lower than most of you are willing to accept. I would love for there to be this perfect world where every event sells out and there are tons of money just to throw around at the end of the night to all the kids who helped, shit I remeber when paying djs was something that just happened and it was the \"Crew\" who was looking for the kick down at the end of the night.

But TIMES HAVE CHANGED. Not very many if any local djs even have a following in this town any more, let alone on that would rate to a 500 fee. Shit 500 is way more than most of the INTERNATIONAL talent that we bring to Frisky are even looking to get anymore. We do alot of shows for 700 inclusive of flight shares all the time. You all also need to consider that although a promoter may make it on one event, the 2 before and the next 2 might not do as well at all. There always seem to be last mintute costs that send budgets all out of wack also.

Jens you are missing a ton of extra costs in your out look and 1500 is quite a few people for an event in Kansas City. I think 1500 people will be the HIGH number for this year and even next year more than likely. Iif you are the one who throws the most well attended party this year then you definately deserve a payday. More than likely you have just put in more work than you ever had on an event and dealt with more than your share of stress and that is if things go well, not the other way around.

All to often djs dont get paid when they are expecting to and this is wrong, however djs should have realistic expectaitions and should share in alot of the burden in getting people to come to the shows and have them end in financial success. More often I think local djs only draw about the same number of people that are on their guest lists and not much more. I mean hey you are a dj right, so then you dont pay to get in and have to get all your homies in to right? Come on what have you done for me lately? You are talking about a city that has all the Ultra Talented djs who desreve the same ammount of money right their own back yard as most of the serious house producers I know, and have brought to Kansas City. Let alone all the tons of money that djs are using to buy records these days.(sarcasm)<-----

Things just are not there way they were. You have to get used to that. If you want to start getting paid then get out there and get these shows packed, dont be so cool that you show up late and head straight for the guest list line with the posse. Get some new people there to see YOU and quite crying all the time. This reminds me of some other djs I know whinning all the time about coming back here.
What all the sudden it is my job to fucking fly you here put you up in a nice hotel and let you play the time slot someone from here is set to play just becaude you know me? this is a weak argument b/c the bottom line is NO ONE IS MAKING ANY MONEY!!!

I am not at all defending people being lied to, just that if there is no money at the end of the night, then the local dj has to eat some of the burden, b/c if you were worth the money there would have been people there. If you are just being ripped off then that is another case entirely.

You all need to look at this and really think if you have had a clear perspective on the issues at hand. I would love to just throw money around at the end of the night to all the people that probably derserve it but in this day and age I am happy just to almost pay the bills or give someone some free records every once in a while.

Hate me or just disagree strongly either way I work in this industry everyday and know promoters from every continent in the world who have the same problems as you and I do here in BFE.

more than .02

Joey

deepfix records

GO TO KABAL ON FRIDAY !!!!!!!!!!! begging<----- =)

[Bucho]

yeah...that was easily AT LEAST a nickel\'s worth of opinion joey ;-) but you\'re right on the fact that we as dj\'s need to build our own fanbase....without a doubt....

[phelyne]

wow. i feel ike ive been saying all these points for years and no one agreed. well, i have been saying them for years, and am really really glad to see people finally are confident enough with where they are at to admit how fucked up we are treated as talent. and that is not just as far as djs go, but thats my crowd and what i know the best.

i wanted to add more points tho.

its really really sucky to get all pumped up to play a party and go there and have the promotors disregard you like youre an annoying little child while they chase around groupies. when i started playing out, when i started about 4.5 years ago, it was really cool to play infront of someone and watch them just start headbanging and jumping around and hooting and hollering out loud as i brought a record in. its was soo cool that the 5 people in the room listening got the messege.

but now

its like

playing for 5 people because the promotor wanted to give their best friend the timeslot cuz he owed him a favor so you couldnt get a decent timeslot to rock the floor like you know you can.

why does it always have to be about someone being recognised for their contribution to societies overall wellbeing and happiness IN ANOTHER PLACE.

we can make that shit happen here. thats what every other place did. built it from scratch. they went out, found something they wanted to stand for and then did it religiously for the rest of their lives and introduced it to all their friends and their friends friends and so on until something really great bonded them all.

we are the modern hippies. we need to bring it around full circle so that we can all start being happy again. specifally during unhappy times for almost everyone.

dammit!!!

fucking wake up.

for rill.

[r0t8]

Jens you are missing a ton of extra costs in your out look and 1500 is quite a few people for an event in Kansas City. I think 1500 people will be the HIGH number for this year and even next year more than likely.

it\'s obvious that was a basic outline. of course there are other auxillary costs such as flyer printing, hotel/plane/dinner for the headliners, etc. that\'s why i rounded up the rental costs and lowered the ticket price which would probably be more like 30 at the door. that was a representation of a large event, too. do i really need to state that for a smaller event, djs should play for less? I\'m not gonna sit here and write the rave promoter marketing program here with all kinds of conditional loops just so i can cover all my bases for the sake of an arguement, y\'know. :)

also...
if promoters want to find out what is bringing people to the party, just have a survey or something. ask every person who they came to see when they come through the door and keep a record of it. then you can find out if the people are coming to see a headliner, some local dj, or if they are just there to hang out, or if they just came to get drunk or whatever. smart companies do this before they initiate website re-designs, so i\'m sure such a survey would help a club/rave promoter/owner as well.

way too many one-off events are thrown ad hoc/on a whim with a lot of guesstimating on costs and demographic. if more prudent research was factored into the organization of these events, i think a lot of the negative side-effects resulting from poor planning could be avoided - such as upset employees(DJs).

[Edited on 22/6/2004 by r0t8]

[phelyne]

one last thing for the time being *ahem --watch me write something in 5 minutes.

but anyways

name calling does not solve anything

we all know who the problems lie with and they know as well. last thing we need is to scare fans that arnt by now away by namecalling

what we need to do

is come up with a plan for action

like its gotta be a different way, or we need to boycott

my suggestion as being a local, a regional, and a national headliner as well as an investor, producer, entrepaneur, and mentor throughtout my time in this scene is that the promotors should have a contingensy plan. a plan for action.

at least when i move away and have a going away party, if i have the loot to even do it cuz as a potential promotor i want ALL THE MONEY NEEDED upfront a month prior, would be to book all the local talent on the basis that they would be paid a percentage of however many people they bring. i have made a formula.

have an excel document at the counter and every person to pay a fee would sign on a list who their first and second and third choices for locals, or however many locals are playing, and then the percentages would be added up at the end of the night and each rank would get a flat fee. then on top of that id say for every 2 people who pay the cover fees and signs your name on the list, you automatically get a dollar. so, 50 people sign your name on the list and you will get 25 dollars plus the set fee for your ranking. that, will encourage everyone to market and promote themselves, while encouraging the promotors to once again listen to the fanbase and put on a wiser party that will draw all the heads and at the same time increase the number of participants.

eliteism only works if everyone is rich enough in resources to segregate. otherwise, it will fail horribly.

i think everyone should think about my little formula very seriously and add or subtract from it, but its a fucking start.

on another note, i think we should all be supporting other genres and nitches as well. like for instance. now at kabal on wednesday the u lit crew does their spoken word night for a 5 dollar cover and let me tell you i have not heard soooooo many talented artists in one room with the same drive and ambition WHO ACTUALLY GOT ALONG AND WERE APPRECIATED as i did the other night. these people speak true words of love and life and know the real essence of what it means to have self expression still. they are on the same ultimate mission as us, to learn to be happy through self expression. we need to join with anyone who is on that path.

its imperative.

[EvilMuffy]

Wow
A lot of really solid opinons representing a lot of different points of view. I\'m pretty impressed.

I\'m probably going to say something that\'s been said already, but I\'ll try to keep it short. It\'s hard to do, given the subject matter.

I\'m not a Dj, but I\'m friends with a lot of you. I played the role of a promoter for a short minute, I was involved with KCPA... I\'ve done a lot in the background. Not to mention, I married a producer, so I do get to see a lot more than the \"average\" party kid.

One thing that interests me is that I haven\'t seen any producers speak up. I\'d like to see some opinions from this realm, b/c producers have a little different take than Dj\'s: if only b/c, when people see them play out at parties, there\'s a common misconception that all they have to do is push a button or turn on their laptop and the pretty music makes itself. They don\'t spend a $150 before every show, but they spend painstaking hours making sure that their live performance can go off without a hitch, and even then it seldom does. They spend just as much money (if not sometimes more) than Dj\'s do on their equipment.

I know of several up-and-comers that are afraid to play in the KC area b/c of the idea that they might get walked all over by KC promoters, and they might get stuck playing in a scene that expects them to give and give and take nothing in return (aside from the screaming fans, haha).

Personally, I think *every* Dj should be given some sort of compensation for playing out - especially if the night went well. Gas money is the least you can give them. Even if it\'s nothing more than doing them a favor (besides \"letting\" them play your party, that\'s just ego) that lets them know how much you truly appreciate their help - b/c w/o the Dj\'s (or producers) you wouldn\'t have a show to put on.

I think it\'s great that there are Dj\'s that are willing to play for free, but not everyone *can* do that. Many performers have to take time off work to play out, and that can be pretty expensive, especially if you play a lot. When compounded with the exorbitant gas prices (which seem to be going down, thank the gods) and other travel costs, cost of gear upkeep, hours spent getting ready for the performance, and the performance itself, it really does make sense why you should pay your artists, no matter if they started Djing yesterday, or if they\'ve been around since 1996. No matter if they\'re from here in Kansas City, or Singapore.

The sad thing is... the local guys who do request to be paid are often looked at as greedy. \"Shouldn\'t you be in it for the music? Come on, we\'re a small scene!\" seems to be the popular mentality.

Afford, schmafford. If you haven\'t saved up enough or gotten enough backing to be able to cut your losses, you probably shouldn\'t be throwing the party in the first place. If you afraid of losing money, you shouldn\'t be playing the game. It\'s all a gamble, sometimes you win, sometimes you lose. But it\'s not right to let your talent go home empty-handed.

[sydeburnz]

another idea would be to give each local dj 10 or 20 tickets to an event they are playing. sell \'em or give \'em away - what you make is what you make. put on your selling hat and sell all 20 tickets if you want to make alot for the gig, or give them all away so you show up deep with your crowd. we used to do that in topeka for some of the local band shows at the armory.

[joshchrans]

WoW!

I didnt realize so many dj\'s were feeling this. I (not that Im that good or anything) have yet to get shit for playing records. I dont even care about getting paid. I just think that sometimes its just rude, that promoters will just use and forget your effort as a dj.

Ive been asked to drive to St Louis w/ Rob on multiple occasions to play at some sort of event. Each time, we were asked or \"booked\" to play, we drove down there, slept on some dipshit\'s floor, payed for our own beer, played a long set for a good crowd, and drove back 100% empty handed. Sometimes, not even a \"thanks\", or \"good set\".

Its just rediculous to expect someone to pay to come play records.

On other occasions, we were promised this and that, told \"we\'ll take care of you guys at the next event\", and.......... NOTHING. Again, Rob and I show up ON TIME, play a GOOD SET (as far as were concerned), and deliver a valuable product. And get NOTHING.

EVEN IF IT\'S JUST A FUCKING \"THANK YOU\".

ATTENTION DJ\'S::::


CONTRACTS CONTRACTS CONTRACTS.

At least with out of town gigs. We have been stiffed for money in too many times after driving 5-6 hours to play some weak ass event in BFE. Anyone remember the BADLANDS?

I could go on and on about this subject.

OK, at least if you are not going to pay me, provide AT LEAST 3 of the following:

Decent fucking needles
A MONITOR
Decent sound
FREE BEER
gas money
and a \"thank you\"

[EvilMuffy]

Good idea Burnz!

And it might sound bitchy for me to say, but josh is right, contracts are of utmost importance... but i also believe that they are extremely important on a local level.

For one thing, it\'s a good habit to get into (on the part of the promoter and the talent both) just b/c it protects your ass consistently and, in my opinion, boosts your credibility.

Doesn\'t matter what angle I\'m coming from, I\'m more likely to do business with someone who\'s got a piece of paper that says I\'m not going to get screwed, and I can\'t screw them.

[b_rent]

OK, at least if you are not going to pay me, provide AT LEAST 3 of the following:

Decent fucking needles
A MONITOR
Decent sound
FREE BEER
gas money
and a \"thank you\"

and how bout..
decent 1200\'s
and cd decks..

if youre going to save money and not pay you dj\'s atleast give them a proper sound system to help them vent their frustration..

[phelyne]

Wow
A lot of really solid opinons representing a lot of different points of view. I\'m pretty impressed.

I\'m probably going to say something that\'s been said already, but I\'ll try to keep it short. It\'s hard to do, given the subject matter.

I\'m not a Dj, but I\'m friends with a lot of you. I played the role of a promoter for a short minute, I was involved with KCPA... I\'ve done a lot in the background. Not to mention, I married a producer, so I do get to see a lot more than the \"average\" party kid.

One thing that interests me is that I haven\'t seen any producers speak up. I\'d like to see some opinions from this realm, b/c producers have a little different take than Dj\'s: if only b/c, when people see them play out at parties, there\'s a common misconception that all they have to do is push a button or turn on their laptop and the pretty music makes itself. They don\'t spend a $150 before every show, but they spend painstaking hours making sure that their live performance can go off without a hitch, and even then it seldom does. They spend just as much money (if not sometimes more) than Dj\'s do on their equipment.


well

first id like to say that even though a lot of us are unsigned or have yet to release tracks, a good majority of us local djs are producers. its like one of the most important elements to being a successful musician. djing is cool, but creating every aspect of the music is what got massive attack huge and so forth.

soon tho, kansas city is about to explode with tracks released on several labels. just watch.

phelyne

[edw!n]

Whoa!!!!! Im very impressed with the outcome of this thread. Lots of good replies. Most of us can relate to this problem and share our experiences because most uf us have been fucked over. Lets all put a stop to this!!!!
I really dont give a flying fuck how tight of friends we are!!! If you want me to play at your party you better http://clantongang.com/oldwest/tgplb0313a.jpg

[sydeburnz]

yes, contracts are extremely important. on most occasions, the times when i have not used one for whatever reasons, it has never turned out good. if you cant get a commitment up front, you probably aint gonna get shit anyways. and its best to know this 2-3 months out. not that i havent had good experiences without contracts, but i have a bit of pull behind me with running the site. most promoters wouldnt want to burn the bridge and possibly run the risk of not having this resource available to them.

on the other hand, i do know that its not always about contract and agreed upon prices. sometimes we are the ones to blame as well. if we agree to play a show for free no matter how packed the party gets, it was our choice. that doesnt mean the promoters shouldnt feel the need to show appreciation, im just saying sometimes we share the responsibility of the outcome. hell, i remember everbody gets lei\'d and me getting there and asking domino if i ever talked about price....i didnt so that was all on me. no contract was signed or price spoken of at the time i was booked, and then i show up at the party talking about fees. probably not the best way to have handled that situation.

[edw!n]

I feel you on that Burnz!!! Thats when I really feel like an ass for ever saying that I would play for free. You agree just to help a motherfucker out, then you realize you just fucked yourself and that you helped a little too much. Whatever I dont have a problem asking for money when that happens, and I\'ve even been rejected just because of the fact that I had already agreed to play for free(greedy fucks) Other times I\'ve been straight up lied too. I can only say that this will no longer happen to me at least. Only events I will ever play for free will be free events. So if everyone is getting in for free at the party or club, then I might play for free and that doesnt happen often. So For the record anyone wants to book me give me a call or email me, and I will either fax or email you a contract.

[raverjennee]

I think some promoters don\'t think that we realize all the work they go through to throw a party. Some complain about the lack of money they are making, or that they are consistently losing cash, and that\'s why they need the locals to\"buck up\" and play for free so they can get their monies back up aftera ton of failed parties.
I\'ll tell you guys just some of what I experienced in STL. This same thing happened, and STL hardly ever got to see any great local talent. Then - the guys that weren\'t that good got a following b/c the opportunity for these kids to hear a \"good\" local was never there. The music began to suck and all you could hear at a party was NRG House. Not that NRG house is terrible, it would have just been nice to hear something different! I have lost thousands of dollars on a party before. Its the chance you take when you decide to throw a party. Along with the chance of going to jail, someone o.d.ing, and numerous other things that could go wrong. Some of you know that\'s everything and anything. I personally don\'t want to hear about how a promoter is just happy to eat after throwing a party. If you don\'t have the money - don\'t do it. I think it sucks to lose money as we all do i\'m sure. But you know the chance you are taking when you get into party throwing. (If you have half a brain anyways) You throw them because you love the music, the kids, and the scene in general. Most of us appreciate that. But we don\'t want a party full of sucky locals b/c you lost your shirt three times already. If your showing sucks for two or three parties... Maybe you should do some research on what the kids want and try to throw parties with talent these kids actually want to see. I have seen too many promoters lose their shirts b/c they booked someone they were a fan of. Pay your locals people! I think the contracts is a def a good thing. They were always used with the artists we booked in STL and it really ads to the respect you are given as an artist when a promter knows he can\'t fuck you over. And know who you are playing for. Don\'t play a party that will be crap just to get your name out there. If you know the promoter might be shady, don\'t chance it. Your rep. is worth more than an hour of bad exposure. I know we have a few great troops here in KC that throw parties.... And to you guys thanks. And to the DJs I have heard out and about here in KC... Alot of you are very talented. If you have played a party for free and brought the dance to this old lady, thank you! Keep bangin\' it!

[edw!n]

If anyone needs some help or a guideline in how to write your Dj contract feel free to email me or send me a private message.

[phelyne]

when writing a contract, make sure you include everything thats important to you.

for example.

i always request that i play on a fully functioning mixer and technique tables, with good monitors and a sound tech because if there is a sound problem, which is the case half the time, i as a dj know a little bit about how to control levels from the mixer, but sometimes the amps volume is jacked way up or something gets shorted out or whatever. its just proper to have someone who thoroughly knows their shit to be there at least the first 5-10 minutes of every djs set so that they know their setup is working properly.

plus, i always make sure the time i play is on the contract as well as the obvious things such as payment details, location of the party, travel arrangenments, date, free drinks, guestlist, etc. the thing i cant stand the most is being told im playing a 1-3 spot during peak hours, then getting to the party and ive been moved back to 10 pm. 10 pm is great, but i WANT to impress a crowd and its really hard to do that in front of no one. and when that was originally agreed upon, it really really pisses me off.

i dont play out in kansas city much at all, not cus i dont want to and its not because i have a superdiva attitude (altho i have come across that way to people i have had previous incidents with), but its because of all of this stuff in this thread. i have played out all over the country and have never had to deal with soooooo many cockblocking haters as in this town. which is fine because i will be going to pittsburg 4th of july weekend to kickit, look for jobs, see if i like this appartment that has been reserved for me, so that i can start my clothing company (OLEO Clothing) and record company (Clawz N Pawz Recordings) in a place that actually has some opportunity and does not find every single way to insult me. not cuz i dont love kansas city. i love this place for real. from the bottom of my heart. but im not going to stay here when the scene is the way it is because it sucks all the life out of me and alllllllll of my friends because the people who are sustainging it are doing a poor job of accomidating anyone other than themselves.

as far as im see it, there are not many people i would refuse to play for here, but some i would definatly not play for again without proper compensation because of the fact they have misled me on several occasions and then pretended its because im a rookie. and im definately not that.

instead of name calling the people who need to improve their business practices, i would much rather call out all the people who have given me proper support and or new people who definatly are in it for the right reasons. these are people i would definately work with again in the future. they have done a good job as far as i see it and will continue to because they just have their heart in it all and have sacrificed a lot to be who they are and are doing it for the same reasons i do what i do, its their passion:

nightbreed operations (cQuence, 1.800, james bond, edw!n, svs, sco and a few more unconfirmed djs <:)

syde sho crew

phocas crew

deep fix crew

u move crew

milo

definately spinstyles <:

tribal vision crew

edw!n

senseone for sure



if your not on that list, i might have forgotten you or dont know you name OR i dont know that your throw parties. If your not on the list, im not saying i would never play for you, because I give everyone one chance, but some of you have lied to my face over and over again and that just not cool.

we have a majority of people in the game here with their hearts in the right place. however, the ones who are not doing it for the right reasons seem to be running over everyone. it needs to stop.

im probably still moving because i have wanted to move away since i was in middle school. i want to make a successful career out of music and art. im tired of working for other people. now the opportunity has arisen to leave. but im hoping that when i move, we can establish basically a base between here and there. we have sooooo much talent here that needs to get out. ill do what i can through the few connections i do have to help out no matter what city i live in. expect to get a final answer from me on this subject after july 6th after i have spent 5 days in pittsburg and have shopped around their scene.

phelyne

[breakbotix]

but heres the problem with contracts...

unless you know the promoter your playin for is some big baller, if he doesnt pay you and you were both on contract it may end up costing you much much more to legally persue. if he has no assets or large bank account, even if you win in court the likelyhood of you seeing the cash is slim.

[FREE_AGENT]

Im not a DJ but empathize with all of you...

I agree and believe a DJ should be compensated for his time and energy, b/c we all know that to a DJ whether its playing for a crowd of 1000 or a room of their best friends, it all means alot to them. And they put a lot of time, blood, sweat and tears into the thing they love the most - spininning records.

If there have been arangements made with DJs then those arrangements should be upheld. Edw!n, I want to know who your playing for free for cuz its certainly not us!! :D :D We try and make sure that everyone is compensated for in one way or another. Whether its getting to play on a real sound system for the 1st time, or gas money, or even 12 cigarettes....(Cquence rules!) Like Burnz said before, on occasion we have give DJs more $$ than promised and even money out of my own pocket that never ended up on some settlement sheet.

Contracts are important, even an email is \'Documentation of Conversation\' that might clear up any failure of communication. Phelyne - we were there when you got stiffed in STL for the 4th time, and we were the first ones to rush in and try to help you. If you think we should do more for other people besides offer timeslots. Speak up, we are promoters, were not labels, we dont produce, what else can we offer. We have done DJ trades on many occasions, where a promoter from another city has wanted to trade DJs so both our DJs can get exposure in other towns. But maybe thats not enough, let us know what we can do. Ask and you shall recieve, alot of people act like they cant walk up to us and start a conversation. Rob Lee will be the first to tell you thats simply not true. Im all ears...and so is Will. If you have something on your mind, for god sakes say it. And hopefully everyone working together, can change this scene for the better, and put it on another level. I think KC still has potential to become something cool.....maybe. And it doesnt look like anyone is giving up now. This is exciting....

-Lee Burgess
Free Agent & Phuk Bed (THAT is how you spell Phuk Bed ! ;) )
785.218.4496 my celly

[Rolliepollie]

in Philly, EVERY person playing a party makes between 150-500 bucks if they are a local... regardless of whether or not they are well-known.

my philosophy is this...

if the promotor loses their ass, why the fuck should I profit from their loss? I am out nothing more than some free-time and gaining some exposure from that.

at the same time... some of the locals around here are worth more than ANY headliners I have seen... but some of you suck fucking monkey ballz and aren\'t worth the gas it takes you to get from your house to the venue...

you aren\'t superstars... and therefor don\'t get paid.

those of you who don\'t suck, please disregard.

[raverjennee]

SOme of the DJs who spin are losing more than their free time. SOme of them use the money they get from parties to stay current with their records. Others pay tuition to college. Others are paying for producing equipment so they can some day contribute new and exciting music to the scene. The rule is simple - if you don\'t have money to pay your talent - don\'t throw the party. (unless there is an agreement) And if you know the local sucks - don\'t book them to save money and fill time slots. It\'s really not that tough of a concept. Ask some of the promoters in STL who have been around for years how many times they have not paid a local - I assure you the number is low. If that is the argument, then a doctor should not get paid if a person doesn\'t have money to go to the doc\'s office. After all - it\'s just the doc\'s free time anyways right? -just another opinion that doesn\'t matter,
Shiney

[edw!n]

Edw!n, I want to know who your playing for free for cuz its certainly not us!! :D :D


Are you talking about me or the other Edwin? :D

[Rolliepollie]

ya know... DJing is the only HOBBY I know of that people get paid for... you expect me to pay for your rekkids?

NOT!

I buy my own records, and you can buy yours too.

not that you don\'t deserve as much money as you earn for the promotor... but you certainly don\'t deserve to profit if they are losing their asses, either.

most DJ\'s worth a damn don\'t charge for their services... it\'s the ones who refuse to play for the love of the game that don\'t get booked... and therefor, they get surpassed by noname, losers who were willing to get their name out instead of having some doped up morons stroking their ego\'s.

in short: of the 15 or so DJ\'s who will reply to this, maybe 3-4 of you deserve ANY compensation. if you suck, you suck... but then again... Richard Humpty Vission got paid... and he certainly was shown up by Xan and Atom in the main room.

[r0t8]

ya know... DJing is the only HOBBY I know of that people get paid for... you expect me to pay for your rekkids?

NOT!

you might be a car mechanic and enjoy working on cars, so you buy your own tools. if a customer comes to you and employs your services, they are going to pay you whether it\'s your hobby on the side or not. period. pay the mechanic well, pay him on time, treat him with respect, then your crowd will run like greased lightning. :P

ps - if you want anyone to heed your words even the slightest amount rolliepollie, you might start by taking that poor-man\'s mdma recipe link out of your profile ;)

[Edited on 23/6/2004 by r0t8]

[Benito Hussolini]

Edw!n, I want to know who your playing for free for cuz its certainly not us!! :D :D


Lee...I really hope you are kidding me.

Who is Edwin playing free for?!?!?

Hmmmmm let me think.....YOU!

You never paid him...for ANYTHING....even when he loaned you his decks...you still never paid him. Its funny that you can be so buddy-buddy with him until the night of a show when you forget all that. You\'ve lied to him and taken advantage of the friendship he has with you and Will.

Go ahead..tell me I\'m wrong. PLEASE KEEP LYING. The best part is, this was all to get you to come on here deny the shit you have done.

AAAAHAHAHAHAHAHA

GOTCHA!

\"Don\'t worry Edwin, we\'ll take care of you.....\"

Right.........

Not only have you NEVER taken care of him, his guestlist got denied, the equipment was a joke and not set up right. HE COULDN\'T EVEN GET A FREE T-SHIRT.

Wow..who needs enemies with friends like you?!?!?!?!



[Edited on 23/6/2004 by Ben_Fuller]

[milo]

Ive read thru the entire thread and i dont recall seeing anybody taking any sort of blame for not paying locals... obviously somebody isnt paying locals cause people are pissed, I want to know which of you have been fucked and by who, and which of you have been lied to and by who... lets just kick it all out in the open cause now im frustrated.. theres not going to be a conslusion if nobody is guilty..
i will start

Dez has done exactly what she said she would when she booked me, gas money was the agreement

Snoopy in St. louis did exactly what he said he would, it was agreed i would play for gas and a place to stay

Marcus of underground mafia in st. louis did a little less than what he said he would.. but he lost severely, and im not joking when i say severely, gas money, hotel, and pocket money cause i helped him with a couple issues on the event i came up short like 20bucks

Amir with fortified in st. louis did exactly what he said, gas

Phuk bed did what they said they would at chaos theory 2, and that was no payment at all with the agreement that no other locals were getting paid either, now if that is false i have then been told a lie

and dude from the palladium i cant recall his name gave me gas money

All of these shows i had atleast a plus one on the guestlist which got my ex girlfriend in and i was cool with that, and honestly if i rolled witha couple extra people there has never been anyone to decline me of getting them in

So I feel I have been extremely lucky in not being lied to, but i will no longer play any shows in st. louis for gas money because i have played there 3 times and im not making the drive for gas money unless its some crazy opportunity to play with some producer i love... <thats another thing, if the promoter is bringing in some sick talent im stoked about being taken care of means nothing because theyve already done it by giving me the opportunity to play next to a legend, and im cool with that

Who is doing the fucking???

[milo]

i almost forgot to Thank Mullen for the comment you made about my statement, thanks mate!

And on another note ive gotten to the point in this city were i just wanna have fun because its so hard to do with the way things are, at time i feel like i was having more fun just coming out to shows and not having to deal with all the drama, although the ones of you who do know me know i pretty much keep to myself i dont come out thru the week or anything for several reasons

I have gotten to the point also were i dont let the drama get to me that much and just kinda forget about it when im out kicken it, its a lot more fun that way obviously.... i just wanna work for the weekends and be a new age hippie :P

[r0t8]

there is no spoon.

[PHUK_BED]

Hey Edwin I\'ve booked you three times one of which you did get paid the other two you weren\'t promised anything. And by the way who got you that nice new job you have? You know I don\'t have fat pockets like you Ben so i can\'t afford to pay out of my pocket to people for an hour to two hours of there time. I agree with you it takes money to make this scene work but it takes support too. With out people you have no support with out cheesey headliners no people. Even with the cheesey head liners there still isn\'t enough people to support the parties. Nothing would please me more than to pay all of you lots and lots of money but I don\'t have it nor have i ever had it. I\'ve put just as much money in to this music as any of you. But at least you have records to show for it. All i have are the memories and ther flyers on my wall. look I\'m sorry that our points of veiws are skewed but book the local Djs that i enjoy seeing even though i\' don\'t ever get to enjoy their sets at my own party because I\'m to busy working. And most of you I consider my freinds so i might not be able to fork over a bunch of cash but anyone of you could ask me for anything and I would do everything in my power to do it. I\'m, sorry if this seems blunt but I\'m tired of nit picking around this is the bold faced truth and if you don\'t like it......................

Much Luv
Wi\'ll C

[edw!n]

Will first off I wanna say thank you cuz I\'ve had a very good time at most shows I\'ve played for you. Thanks for the new job I LOVE it(the job doesnt have anything to do with this, because even if you hooked me up with it. I still gotta work) I want you to know that when I started this thread my goal was to change what is happening to me and all other Djs in KC that have built a name for themselves and have little or no money to show for it.
I have played at numerous parties for you and a shit ton more promoters in KC. The deepfix guys have always been really good to me. I\'m part of their kru and I will always claim Deepfix even if im not working there like I was before. They never gave me much money but they have always hooked me up with records when I\'ve had a gig to play at.
Joe Cummings \"is the man\". I\'ve only played at a few of his events and had plenty of runarounds to get my money but got something.

Phuk Bed
I\'ve played at a few of your shows too. As Game so please keep in mind here that is ME and PMS. I dont remember the first show I played for you guys. The First Freaks I played as Game for the first time got payed. I played at Prophecy was told I was gonna get $50 and PMS was gonna get $50. This party was the day my wife was due to have my second child I played anyway cuz I needed the money. I was done playing at 1am, but had to stay till 3am to get my money cuz I was given the run around for my money, finally walked out with only $50 for the both of us(me and PMS).
The new years shot where it was Breakbotix vs. Game=no $
Ming and FS Show me and PMS played for a FULL HOUSE= no $
Last Chaos Theory party=no $ No guestlist spot
I\'ve let you use my turntables cases and mixer all you gave me was $10 and a pack of smokes.

Again Im not trying to get personal here you\'re my boy, and I\'ve always enjoyed playing with PMS at the shows. But Nigga Im broke!!!

[raverjennee]

r0t8 Good point! GO you! Get busy! Anyways, I don\'t expect anyone to pay for my records.... it just happens to be that my time is precious, deserves being paid for, and the money earned is used to buy more. If this weren\'t true, then the saying time is money wouold have never come to be now would it? Some people have the luxury of being able to spin for free b/c they can give the time it takes to do that w/o losing anything. If that\'s the case - good for them. Most of us don\'t have that luxury. IWe for the most part are working stiffs with bills and lives. We take time out of our days to practice something we love to do. Can\'t practice without the proper resources.

Its also a matter of respect. Show the artists you appreciate them bringing asses into their venues by paying them. At least give them 5 or so guest spots and gas money! Anyways, I have said my piece. I think my soapbox just exploded.... Ouch!

[Bucho]

this has definitely turned interesting...here\'s a breakdown of my last few events in no particular order, just ramblin through my head cuz i\'m drunk...


synthesis - didn\'t expect to get paid, got paid...that\'s always nice

everybody gets lei\'d - didn\'t expect to get paid, didn\'t get paid, got my girl in as my guest. i was fine with that. the equipment set up on the other hand...well...while i didn\'t specify what i was supposed to play on (which i think would\'ve been silly), the equipment was lacking, but i dealt with it.

Empire Room on Labor day - Two Heavy never said anything about payment and i didn\'t get paid....at that point, for me, it was more about gettin to play Labor Day at the Empire for the 3rd year in a row...more nostalgic than anything else

Angel\'s Benefit - the word benefit should tip you off...of course i\'ll play this for free...there\'s no reason not to, unless you\'re an asshole.

Under Construction - never told i would get paid and after seeing the low turn out, i\'m pretty sure i would\'ve waived it had i been promised it as well. you have to be flexible.


these are just the last few events. yes, i didn\'t expect to get paid and i didn\'t...but the rare instances where i DID get paid and didn\'t expect it, it was nice. i try not to complain about where i\'m at now dj wise. i\'ve met a lot of people who\'ve given me a lot of opportunities to play and i\'ve taken almost every chance people have given me. i\'ll still do it, but now, pending new, higher bills due to my growing up and becoming more responsible (fuck, i work two jobs just to make ends meet!), i\'ll have to start charging. should the event not do so hot, of course i\'ll be willing to negotiate, that\'s how we do. promoters will remember that and i have no problems helping alleviate just ONE SMALL problem they deal with in the entirety of an evening. either way, i\'ve been okay with the way i\'ve been treated here in town so far...there is still the future to see about. nuff said.

[EvilMuffy]

ya know... DJing is the only HOBBY I know of that people get paid for... you expect me to pay for your rekkids?

NOT!

You\'ve GOT to be kidding???

how about those computer geeks that make a living in the IT industry? or the historians that write the history books or film the documentaries? or the people in Hollywood or on Broadway who have lived their lives in the spotlight b/c their favorite hobby is acting, or otherwise putting together a show? Or the teachers who teach their favorite subjects b/c they\'ve always taken pleasure in doing math puzzles, word puzzles, science experiments, or historical re-enactments? Or the athletes that have always loved nothing more than the sport they play, and get a full ride to college and multimillion dollar contracts to do what they love most?

I really liked what Jennee had to say... with the doctor\'s analogy. Even if the doctor\'s bedside manner isn\'t great, you still pay him cuz he\'s doing his job.

I don\'t know, I think I\'m just really troubled by the outlook you take, especially knowing that you have (or used to have) a very strong interest in promoting... and I know that you have said many things to make certain people want to play at the events that you have been involved in. But if this is how you feel, then I seriously have to question whether you would stand by those same promises you make...

And besides, it\'s just such a negative attitude to take, and we REALLY don\'t need any negativity around here. I mean, really, Ralph....

Being jaded isn\'t \"cool\" anymore.

Unless you\'re Jenz....

[Cyrus Ramsey]

Once again, what writting? If somebody says they will pay you and then use your name in any form of public advertiseing whatsoever, then they are bound by a leagal contract. if oyu show up in a court room and say this guy told me he would pay me set amount of dollars and you produce a flyer with your name on it or a copy from a website advertisement, and that fucker didnt pay you then the judge is going to look at you and then him and find him guilty. That promoter or whoever he was will then have to pay what he owed you + any extra the judge awarded along with court cost.

A verbal agreement without advertiseing is one thing, but once your name is on a flyer that is in fact a legal agreement that can be battled and won in court.

[mikemcgrath]

yeah but how much would the court cost, lawers, ect.......?

[Kourtney]

i think it was laura that saw a dj take a promoter to court over a contracted fee that the dj never recieved.

didn\'t cost this dj a thing to take him to court, he went on judge judy or some tv show like that.

:D

[EvilMuffy]

^^^ i think i remember hearing about that, k... what was that, a couple years ago?

besides, you don\'t *need* a lawyer (which is the bulk of your court expenses)

if you can represent yourself that\'s all it takes... and that just means having the proper documentation, witnesses... things no lawyer, no matter how good, can argue against.

though i\'d hate to see it come to this, i\'m sure that would be a last resort and one very rarely used, if ever.

but don\'t let anyone tell you that a contract is worthless b/c it costs money to go to court.... that\'s just bullshit

[phelyne]

well, yes, i have not forgotten the time that i anticipated snoopy pulling some fast shit about the new years eve party of 2003 in stl that cquence and i were booked to play in st. louis where i had to fly in from olrando while dez drove in from kansas city where we each got to play for 30 minutes for a dead crowd at 4 am and dude acted like he wasnt going to pay the 150 bucks dez and i was supposed to split to make up for the travel money whcih didnt even cover half of it and was the agreement, even though the party was packed solid. i have not forgotten that you, will and lee, came to my aid in that matter. i have thanked you several times for that and will, once again, say my thanks. thanks :)

and when i was booked to play at invasion that was a great party for me locally, because i closed out the party to a packed floor who loved my set and i have never been givien that kind of opportunity locally. however, instead of getting paid the 50 bucks, i was only paid 40 even though the party was thumpin. it didnt matter so much to me then because i just got the opportunity to bump the crowd and most everyone who was there for the beginning of that set stayed till closing time. then the next party i played for you was freaks II where you booked cquence and i to tag and that really turned out quite an upset for me as will and senario both heard later from me personally. i was highly dissappointed that the vending issue had not be sorted out because i had litterly spent over 300 hundred dollars on shit to try and raise money so i could afford to launch my company and you guys could only afford to pay 25 bucks. vending was how i was going to make up for the money lost by taking off the entire day at work to prepare for your party. i was not able to set up shop until about 1 hour before the event ended. very dissappointed in that. then to top it off, senario ran up on me and cquence quick like saying here was 20 of the 25 and he had to go get the other 5 bucks for each of us. he then went on to play with a robot and drink beer and she and i waited around for almost 45 minutes because he gave us the impression he was coming right back. i like all three of you, but together it seems you have found ways to miscommunicate amoungst each other and lay blame on one another for those miscommunications and i ultimately end up in a situation that is out of my control where i feel wronged and disrespected and neglected. hence the reason i have turned down the recent booking offer for kaoss theory 2. i knew that party was going to go off well with hundreds and thousands of kids from all over the midwest, yet none of the locals got paid for a $30 dollar cover to see 5 headliners that have all been here at least once if not several times in the last few years (which means your prolly got pretty good breaks on them) with only one headliner who had not been here, soul slinger. i know the math approximately on the uptown, on those headliners, on the additional sound and a lot of the expenses just off of common promotor knowledge. senario asked me to play that party for 25 bucks for a 10 pm timeslot. for one, a party of that kind of calabre, I WANT TO REPRESENT. I WANT TO PLAY FOR AS MANY PEOPLE AS POSSIBLE. after playin the invasion gig here, i know i can get an entire floor rocking to my set here. but, apparently you feel im \"not good enough\" for a better timeslot than that. instead, you give it to cquence who has been doing the most charitible djing this town has seen in years and for all her hard work, yall should be fucking paying her what you pay mike scott. no only does she play every event here and bring at least 25 paying heads to ninety percent of those gigs, but she is also one of the most successful promotors here as far as holding down the cup and saucer for almost 2 and half years as well as the hurricane platfrom weds for 6 months.

i dont give a fuck. if your losing money on a party, its because your not promoting it correctly.

there is a difference between booking quality talent and booking popular talent. a city like this needs a lot of educating and recrouting right now and picking the top 20 djs outta remix magazine isnt really doing that. we need more regionals and more brand new up and coming djs to be brought here as headliners instead of the same 5 headliners year after year.

for those of you complaining that you dont have the crowd base you want, i dont really buy that copout because every scene grew its fan base from scratch one way or another and if the current one is dying off, its not cuz what your doing is working. if you think your losing heads, could be cuz your parties dont interest them anymore. maybe you should try spicing them up by hiring dancers or having REAL giveaways or someshit. find something for a lil crowd participation that will want them coming back. cuz from my perspective, people are bored at parties. without entertainment, kids are gonna fall off. and a dj is the backbone of the entertainment, but not always the focus of the event. there are soooooooooo many elements misssing now at parties. back in the day, there were kids who just walked around asking EVERYONE if they were having a good time and if they said no, they pulled your ass out on the dance floor until you did. point blank.

and to be honest there havent been tooo many instances as of late as far as bookings going wrong because i have beeen very very picky about who and where i play, hence why i dont get booked out a lot. people wanna act like im super egotistical, but whether or not you realize it, im doing a lot more than people know about or care to recognize and will continue to do it with or without your support just as i have been doing for the past 4 years. i obviously am very opinionated so anyone who has disrespected me has heard about it. and again, on a personal level yall are really cool peoples, but when im booked its automatically business because friends always seem to be the ones who borrow your favorite sweater and then stretch it all to hell and wont replace it cuz they use the friend card. bullshit.

as much as i want to play out here and know i am capable of entertaining the crowd and showing them the good time they came for, im not gonna beg or stoop to some lower level like i need scraps giving to me. i am on my way up because of all the hardwork and time and effort i put into my shit. i spend over 80 hours a week working to better my skills, buisness and music wise, because i know that no one is going to just give me something for free. i wouldnt want it free, unlike a lot of promotors want their talent. when shit comes for free, its not nearly as good even though it is mostly from the heart. i take my art so seriously that it is a job. i dedicate all my time and every bit of my energy on making it. and because of that, i will succeed in this game. with or without YOUR support.

so, book me or dont book me. someone will book me if you dont. and the decision wont be because im their best friend or they owe me a favor or whatnot. its gonna because im damn good at what i do because i work to be that good. its gonna be because when my tracks are released, people are going to want to hear them because im not stopping until I AM THAT GOOD. the for those that dont book me, hopefully instead of it being about the fact people dont like i told the off the last time for fucking me over, it will be because they are giving it to someone who deserves the spot more than me because of that persons hardwork and determination.

but as it stands, seems like im not booked mostly cuz yall dont like that i have pricinples i expect to be upheld and i require some sort of compensation.

well, shoot me for needing to put food on my table and provide for myself like everyone else does, by earning money. if you wanna barter, FINE WITH ME. but fucking bring something to the table that i need and or can actually use.

otherwise,

im not interested in playing your games. i have my own games to invent.

phe dizzle
my nizzle

[EvilMuffy]

reading phelyne\'s last post made me realize something...

THIS SUBJECT HAS BEEN DISCUSSED FOR 3 DAYS, AND 3 PAGES, AND STILL NO FLAME WAR!!!!

hell motherfucking yes. i\'m really happy about this. :)

phelyne, i\'ve always had much respect for you (dating back to the egroup days) and how you\'ve always commanded respect with your posts... you say what you have to say, you make your point, and you make it a point to reveal flaws without being offensive. That\'s downright awesome and you get props.

communication is key, keep up the good work guys....

[sydeburnz]

i dont give a fuck. if your losing money on a party, its because your not promoting it correctly.

there is a difference between booking quality talent and booking popular talent. a city like this needs a lot of educating and recrouting right now and picking the top 20 djs outta remix magazine isnt really doing that. we need more regionals and more brand new up and coming djs to be brought here as headliners instead of the same 5 headliners year after year.

phelyne, you know i dig you, and we hang and chat quite a bit when we are both out and about, but these two sentences you put together just dont sit right. saying the promoters have to educate is a very valid statement, and each promoter might go about it different. but, if a promoter decides to educate, there is almost always a low turnout. is this because they did not promote correctly? i would have to say no on that. anytime you take a chance in this town, and try to bring some fresh, unknown talent, you take a hit. the show never breaks even. at least from my experience. that is exactly the time you need the locals to back you up if need be. hell, i dont throw that many shows, but if im gonna take a chance and try to educate the people, the locals playing that party would know up front its a strong possiblity the party will not break even. After all that, would the first sentence in your quote still apply?

[edw!n]

What Phelyne says is true. Promotion is the key to make money. I remember back in the day when people where putting out Flyers for their parties 2 or 3 months in advance. Letting everyone know what was up, who was gonna be there playing, if they have ever been in town and pretty much what to expect of the event. Back then people got very exited ti hear that there was New Djs they never heard
before coming to town. Is all a matter in wich you promote and sell the hype. Its also about timing and careful planing.

whatever happened to all promoters getting togethe,r sharing their ideas, and maybe all getting together to host and promote a show?

whatever happened to the respect for the Djs? and the respect of the audience that supports promoters?

Reality is that nowadays the Djs aint \"Rockstars\" anymore. Dj\'s are treated like they should be lucky that they\'re playing at these events. The promoters stole all the power and all the say in what happends.
The promoters are throwing these events, and they look all high and mighty running around with groupies hanging from their nuts, while the Dj\'s are kept in a closet like puppets that can be manipulated for the promoters advantage.

We the Dj\'s let this shit happen to us. Is our duty to change it if we want shit to get better. Promoters come and go, and even some Dj\'s quit from frustration or lack of time and money. But the true headz, the oldschool Djs. The true music fanatics stick around cuz is what we know and is what we have flowing in our vains. Lets take a stand, lets make it better for all of us DJ\'s. Even if you are just a bedroom Dj that plays at house parties. Make sure you get the recognition and compensation you deserve.

Ill post more shit later heheheh

[edw!n]

reading phelyne\'s last post made me realize something...

THIS SUBJECT HAS BEEN DISCUSSED FOR 3 DAYS, AND 3 PAGES, AND STILL NO FLAME WAR!!!!

hell motherfucking yes. i\'m really happy about this. :)




You know why? because this subject is one that every Dj in KC can relate too. We all have the same problems and nobody is gonna defend or attack anyone else. Is obvious that people are feeling where im coming from. I encourage everyone to share their experiences being part of a show, rave, club night or whatever. We all have them good or bad.

[Monkey]

My party last summer was quite small and free, and every one of the dj\'s donated some equipment, some time on the decks, help cleaning the streets etc. And I gave them all free beer all night long, as well as the people who brought their art I believe (who made $$ by the way and I didn\'t).

And yep, that came directly outta my pocket and they drank a shitload of Pale Ale and I don\'t give a damn. Their efforts shouldn\'t go un noticed. I got nothing but love and support for Urban Artifacts and it may seem small and insignificant but I did try and at least let the dj\'s know I appreciated their support and LOVE. It was one of the few times I\'ve seen people from a few different crews come together for one show. I mean, Deepfix called me right before the show and asked if I needed anything. And I did, and they helped me, as well as people from TRG, Free Agent, Offtrack, I could go on and on.

I just wish I could see more of that. Group collaboration for the good of a show I guess?

this may be a lil off topic but I do think that it\'s all related to people working together with clear communication.

Even a small token of appreciation can mean the world to someone. <3

[cQuence808]

that party was lovely monkey goddess

[FREE_AGENT]

I would like to clear a couple things up.....

Edw!n - CT2, the no guestlist thing....all the DJs got a +1 unless they had special needs for more. I would thinbk the confusion with the guestlist can only be blamed on the amount of names that were on the list and the guy working box office couldnt find it or something. If you would have said something or call someone and we would have been all over it....you know that. As far as NYE...that doesnt sound right, Id have to ask Will. But we started trying to give everyone a lil something long time ago. As far as Phuk Luv, I wasnt the one who booked you...we didnt really even have that much to do with that party. We were given the \'presents\' on the show and paid to market it....you can thank the lawrence Edwin for not getting paid or better yet, you can call JESSE. Im sure hes got something to say on the subject. Either way, Im sure you were told upfront what the deal was. If you didnt want the gig, you should have passed.

Phelyne - as far as not being able to set up to sell merch at Phreakz! 2....I remember you showing up around 10:30...not the 1 hr before doors that I asked you to be there by. You show up in the middle of a rush when we are running around like a chicken w/ our head cut off. Sorry about that, not sure what else to say. As far as you getting asked to play CT2, I dont think that was the case. We called you to play Essence, for money that you turned down b/c the timeslot wasnt good enough. 10-11 wasnt good enough. Your own preference, you never heard us complaining.

This is an issue that we have dealt with internally, and corrected occordingly even though things may look slow. Ever since Synthesis, we as a collective, have made it our goal to get everyone a lil somthing, not including CT2. Even if it is $25, we want to get everybody something. Everybody that played for us at CT2 played for free, b/c they had our back and supported what we were trying to do. Support us or dont, we are trying to do the right thing and people try to make us out to be the bad guy.

Ben - we\'ve gone rounds before. You need to get your facts straight, you will NEVER have the whole story, so quit acting like you do. I dont book the locals, Ive always tried to stay out of it. Everyone can attest to that. I try to stay out of the local political BS that always seems to pop up. And still you try and point the finger at me. Will - you need to back me up on this but.......Ive have always fought for the DJs in this town to get the respect and compensation they deserve whether it be in another city or KC. With the help of Burnz, I was the one who pushed for the company wide change of policy about locals getting little to nothing. Ben, you always try and point the finger at me but its always petty BS that gets dismissed as random bantering stemming from you own insecurities. You\'re barking up the wrong tree. And another thing, you keep trying to call me out like theres some big deal that Im dodging or that you cant call me up on something. Ive reached out to you on a number of occasions looking to settle differences but you never have responded. So if its such a big deal that you go out of your way to make ME look like the bad guy why wont you talk to me.

You were the one that didnt show up to your own club nite when I went down there to talk to you. What was up with that?

[FREE_AGENT]

In summary, this is an issue that we\'ve addressed internally and will be fixed in future business ventures. The only thing left is to sit back and see if we stay true to our word.

Yes, in the beginning we tried to pay as little DJs as possible to keep the break even down. Thats just trying to play it smart in a cripled market. Now that we know we can get the kids to come out, we\'ve started paying more DJs.

Also, if your a DJ trying to make a living or simply trying to support your addiction of buying rekkids, off spinning parties, your in the wrong town. Theres not enough going on.

holla!

[Benito Hussolini]

Lee,

A) This wasn\'t about me in the least. The whole reason Edwin started this thread is because he was upset as to how YOU and your crew have treated him. We both were interested to see how you handled this. Will had an excellent, tactful response that addressed the issue at hand. I responded as I did because of how ludacris your post was. If you don\'t know how the locals that play at your parties are being treated, you really should take a management class or two. It is your event, therefore anything GOOD or BAD that happens is going to reflect on to you. Deal with it.

B) My spat with you about CT is a separate conversation. I apologized to Will for what I said, so leave it at that. I know I was a prick, and I acknowledge that. The reason I didn\'t come to Kabal that night was twofold. First, I had business to attend to early next morning and didn\'t plan on being out all night. Second, I had no doubt that you and your \"crew\" are not above violence and I need no part of that nor do I really feel the need to explain much to you. I spoke with Will and said what I felt because I like Will as a person and he was concerned that you and whoever else was planning some sort of violent retaliation against me.

The main thing to keep in mind is that trying to shift the focus here is not going to work. I am angry because of how my best friend was treated. How is that insecure? Its not. Lets not lose sight of who wronged who in this thread.

Its not about me Lee. Its about YOU. Thats all.

Notice, I am not insulting, degrading or being rude to you, I am telling you like it is. You think I don\'t have the facts straight...well who am I going to believe..my best friend or you?

Ben - we\'ve gone rounds before. You need to get your facts straight, you will NEVER have the whole story, so quit acting like you do. I dont book the locals, Ive always tried to stay out of it. Everyone can attest to that. I try to stay out of the local political BS that always seems to pop up. And still you try and point the finger at me. Will - you need to back me up on this but.......Ive have always fought for the DJs in this town to get the respect and compensation they deserve whether it be in another city or KC. With the help of Burnz, I was the one who pushed for the company wide change of policy about locals getting little to nothing. Ben, you always try and point the finger at me but its always petty BS that gets dismissed as random bantering stemming from you own insecurities. You\'re barking up the wrong tree. And another thing, you keep trying to call me out like theres some big deal that Im dodging or that you cant call me up on something. Ive reached out to you on a number of occasions looking to settle differences but you never have responded. So if its such a big deal that you go out of your way to make ME look like the bad guy why wont you talk to me.

You were the one that didnt show up to your own club nite when I went down there to talk to you. What was up with that?

[Kourtney]

Angel\'s Benefit - the word benefit should tip you off...of course i\'ll play this for free...there\'s no reason not to, unless you\'re an asshole.

and i thank u very much!! for playing and being understanding when things had to get switched around a little.

http://www.addis-welt.de/smilie/smilie/liebe/im_028.gif <--and that goes for nuro, johnny T, and alex too

The new years shot where it was Breakbotix vs. Game=no $

I dont know how many people showed up to that party so i dont know how much $$ was made but i am curious how much u think is fair pay for that gig? I am assuming u got an hour slot for the breakbotix vs. game thing, so an hour split 5 ways. that is like only 12 minutes of time on the decks each, another reason i dont really get the massive tag thing but that isnt the point really. so I am thinking, and correct me if i am wrong but, we are only talking around $15-20 ??

I am also curious as to why the people complaining about not getting paid when promised, or having to run around and get the money don\'t change the way they handle the situation. I mean I know we(being as I am a dj\'s girlfriend and all **just for u ben**) have asked many times for part or all of the agreed fee to be paid upfront. worked out great cause we didnt have to worry about that at the party, just have fun.

PS -- levi, nice reply (two above) but i have to ask why CT2 dj\'s played for free? seems to me that the bigger parties like that would make the most money and in turn the dj\'s would get more money, not less.

[Kourtney]

I like Will as a person and he was concerned that you and whoever else was planning some sort of violent retaliation against me.

who is the he that was concerned? I am thinking will but that makes no sense to me

i highly doubt that lee would have any \"violent\" anything. plus if it is will, the he concerned, i doubt he would be concerned that lee would plan some \"violent\" retaliation.

i dont know who this \"crew\" is u speak of so maybe lee does have this beat \'em up crew that he calls in to handle internet drama. I hear Lane is one nasty gangbanger, LOL.

i could be wrong, sometimes people are good at hiding their scarebear sides, but to me that isn\'t something i could ever see lee doing.





[Edited on 23/6/2004 by Kourtney]

[FREE_AGENT]

Ben,

How is this ALL me? I dont even run Phuk Bed.....so for you to say that all this falls on me is taking it a bit far. Anyone who has played a free agent party has been compensated. And I dare you to prove me wrong. Phuk Bed is different than Free Agent, sorry.


Now Ill admit no one is getting rich off me but no one can expect to.

[FREE_AGENT]

Thank you Kourtney, anyone who REALLY knows me knows that is the last thing on my mind when it comes to some party BS.

I really was down there to talk, I even gave Ben my cell # but he never called.

[Kourtney]

PS -- levi, nice reply (two above) but i have to ask why CT2 dj\'s played for free? seems to me that the bigger parties like that would make the most money and in turn the dj\'s would get more money, not less.

*echo* *echo*

i think u forgot to read this part of my other post :cool:

[FREE_AGENT]

hehe....sorry, got caught up typing responses.

With CT2 we had 25k on the line. With expenses the way they were the only way to get a breakeven of less than 1200 people was to cut expenses where we could and get some sponsorship money. All the DJs were down for the cause, (brining a party that big to KC) and saw the risk we were taking. Most of the people who played that party were homies that were down to play for free. All we could give the regionals was $75 or a hotel room. Now I did give most of the regionals money out of my own pocket, for gas or whatever b/c for coming from OKC, that wasnt enough money to even get up here. But I gave them more $$.....no one hears about that shit. Ben only brings up the fact that locals didnt get paid.

[Edited on 23/6/2004 by FREE_AGENT]

[Kourtney]

that is an awful lot of work for no one to get any money in return. i sure as hell wouldnt do it, LOL.

so what was the final head count at CT2 anyway?

[FREE_AGENT]

...around 1300 paid

[phelyne]

Phelyne - as far as not being able to set up to sell merch at Phreakz! 2....I remember you showing up around 10:30...not the 1 hr before doors that I asked you to be there by. You show up in the middle of a rush when we are running around like a chicken w/ our head cut off. Sorry about that, not sure what else to say. As far as you getting asked to play CT2, I dont think that was the case. We called you to play Essence, for money that you turned down b/c the timeslot wasnt good enough. 10-11 wasnt good enough. Your own preference, you never heard us complaining.



well for starters, the conversation between senario and i about chaos theory was for chaos theory. i was asked to play that event the same day cquence was asked to play it because he asked her for my phone number. ask senario the deal on that because i had no idea about your other party essence or whatever, as i told steven the other night at spinstyles event, until this past saturday. like i told steven, if you want to book me, ask me directly. i have never had a problem with YOU lee, but when you and your crew goes through senario, the information always seems to get jumbled which is the reason i turned it down. i stated my terms, he said no and that was that. but now, hes telling all of you guys that he really asked me for some party i never new was even being thrown. had you have asked me directly, i would have accepted. lane, i would have excepted. but i, as i have stated, will not continue to book for or through people who continulely mislead me. no way. i know how they handle biz and im not down with that.

and about the vending. you did not make it clear to me that i haddd to be there 1 hour prior. you invited me, at least how i took it it was more of a, were gonna be down there in about an hour if you wanna show up then. mind you that was at like 8pm and i alreayd live almost 45 minutes away and was not done preparing yet. i wasnt able to because i was cooking special halloween treats that i brought for the event specifically. and on top of that, all of the arrrangements worked out with that UNTIL you finally informed the other people about me vending, which i thought you did the month or two prior when i asked if it was okay, but senario wanted to tax me on the profits and instead of having a table saved like i thought you said there would be, i had to run around looking for one. im not mad at you lee for that, im not mad at anyone in particular, but im upset how it was handled because it was all miscommunication that cost me hundreds of dollars cuz i wanted to try and raise some money while bringing a different element to the party since a lot of people arent doing new innovative or even old school shit like that. and for the record, i ended up giving out EVERYTHING i did not sell because the intention was to get rid of it all regardless. i made cookies, choc. chip cookie bread, trick or treat candy bags, lil toy soldiers. people didnt know what to think, but they liked it. that was the other goal on top of raising money. so it wasnt a complete waste, but it was, again, very dissappointing.

and i dont mind being taxed on vending as long as thats the prior aggrement.

again, if you wanna book me, i have certain terms, not cuz im full of myself, but because i want MORE than what is being offered.

IM AMBITIOUS. i cant help it. but i dont want to be at this level forever. and i wont be. even if i have to work 3 jobs on top of starting a record label and clothing label to pay for my records and blank cds and whatnot. IMMA DO THAT INSTEAD OF PLAY A PARTY WHERE NOONE WILL HEAR ME MIX OR WHATEVER. id rather print my own flyers with my shit on it and do the footwork myself than not get the exposure i wont cuz some people just dont see me being better than a 10 pm spot.

its not personal, its business.

and im done doing business with people i dont get a mutual reward out of working for.

lee, email me outside of here cuz i dont know how to work the pm very well in this site cuz im never on here and i dont have time now to learn it cuz im out the door for work. or maybe ill see you tonight at the cup n saucer with svs. djphelyne@hotmail.com we need to talk one on one because i think you are thinking my problem is with you and its really not. but more so with the people you work with. i can explain much better in person than over here and am tryin to get the point across without being a bitch, but well, imma bitch so the more i talk about online, the less it be in the correct manor. dig?

[PHUK_BED]

Oh LORDY LORDY. You know this whole thing has had me chapped since i saw this last night but after thinking about it and talking to a couple people you know its not worth the negative energy.

First off Edwin you and Broderick both gat paid $100 each. And Lee already cleared up Phuk Luv. And as for getting you a job that does have somthing to do with this. I went out of the way put my name and reputation at a job I\'ve been at for over a year for you. My point is this you are my homie and i would do anthing in my power to help you. I\'m sorry you didn\'t get paid for CT2 but you knew the deal before it ever started so if you didn\'t want to do it you shouldn\'t have don\'t cry about ti after the fact. But if you really think about you\'ve only played one party for free for us and that was CT2. You got main Jungle stage billing and got the best local and regional time slot. (you had a better time slot than Gia) Now look No one walked away with fat pockets on that party so don\'t get it mixed up no one is rich around here. The only $ I\'ve got I work for and very hard I might add. Anyone who kicks with me can attest I have 3 jobs and have for the past year. So its not my fault your broke.

And as for the rest of you we always try and give somthing whether it be $10 and pack of cigs or $20 or somthing the only people we make play for free are the bedroom DJs that we give a chance that don\'t have any credit. What I wanna know is this if a promoter is trying to make $ he or she is in it for the wrong reason but a DJ on the other hand has every right to bitch about $. I\'m sorry like I said before I\'ve put just as much money into the scene here as any of you probably more than most you so don\'t talk to me about $ cause until you lose your ass on a party you just don\'t know. And everytime we throw a party we take that risk the only risk any of you take is that you might fuck up and train reck which would be no ones fault but your own.

And Yeah I\'ll back Lee up i do book most of the local and regional talent for our partys. And honestly its not gonna change depending on who you are you\'ll get nadda to $75 at best depending the party because I\'m sorry folks thats all this scene can support and I\'m not going to lose anymore $ on this scene because I really don\'t feel the reason to none of you care whether we LOSE MONEY so why should we care about you.

I\'m done with this whole subject I\'ve been brutaly honest wrather than trying to play mister politics smile in your face when i really feel another way. Its all out on the table so I\'m all ears and if anyone has a suggestion for ways for all of us to make a little scrill I\'m all ears because I\'m in the same boat as all of you. The music indistry sucks and si unforgiving. the odds of making real $ at it are about 1 in a billion and thats every aspect from promoter to musician. The record labels and booking agencies are the only people who make any thing.

My 2 pennys takem for what there worth.
I\'m sure this will piss a lot of people off so I\'ll apoligize in advance I mean no ill will towards anyone I just wish there was a happy medium some where.

Muchos Luv
Wi\'ll C


[Edited on 23/6/2004 by PHUK_BED]

[Edited on 23/6/2004 by PHUK_BED]

[PHUK_BED]

Oh and Lee it was 1265 paid and 350 got in for free. Now on a 1200 person break even. Multiply 65 by 30 thats $1950. Phuk Bed recieved 30% of that which is $585 now split between two people thats $290. That didn\'t even cover the gas and travel expenses for all the promotion I did not to mention the 5 months that went in to it. Now you know exactly what went down anyone else wanna bust our balls. Now if we did away witht the guest list thats almost another $11,000 we could just take away the guest list which means everyone pays and then everyone gets paid just a suggestion.

[Kourtney]

or just be ball busters, it would of only taken $1,300 to give each act $100

thats only 50 or so kids

but than u would be an asshole for not giving some people guest slots

just face it, u suck no matter what :P

[Edited on 23/6/2004 by Kourtney]

[FREE_AGENT]

Phelyne- thats fine, Ill hit you up off the site.....I remember scenario trying to tax you and I remember telling him that wasnt cool. I got your back kid. That was a chaotic night and I apologize for the loss of money. I do remember you not being able to make it in time b/c you lived so far and had to work, and I remember trying to get you a table but no one could help me or get away from the door. Sorry, I didnt remember you didnt want to get booked through scenario though. Him being our Jungle guy, we had him book the jungle room, sorry about that. I really dont like to get involved in local politics.

Will - that was definately brutal, but straight from the heart. We try very hard to keep this scene alive. You can bitch about the talent we bring, you can bitch about locals not getting paid enough but we still try and keep things going. If you look at other cities we are not doing all THAT bad. The kids keep coming out, DJs still have parties to spin, and people still have stuff to bitch about. You cant please all the people all the time, but like I said before we have dealt with this issue internally.

We still luv all you guys....maybe even Ben eventually ;)

[synthetic]

man, it would really suck to have to work hard to make this scene work. As far as spending money for something you love ( just cuz you love it) who the hell does that anymore. hmmmmm we all need some more hobbies. im going to try model plane building.

[Benito Hussolini]

I\'ve been practicing the skin flute.

[phelyne]

djs cant be slacking on drawing their own fanbase for sure. lets not get all mad only at the promotors when this is an all around issue for every player in this game. we ALL need to be doing our part. ya heard?


kc reprazent should mean we are all out there reprezenting. in order for us to get paid, the promotors have to make enough money to divide up between everyone and still pay themselves for the months put in to organizing it.

thats why i suggested back on liike page 2 or 3 that we should try out a refferel type program, that way we can test the waters, see how many new heads it brings in and then its on the djs to decide how much money they really wanna EARN. <:

peace and im out to the cup.

bump bump woot woot

[andrewboie]

http://stat.discogs.com/A/27-001.jpg
CARI LEKEBUSCH

Capricorn born 1972, homebase Stockholm, Sweden. Performing Vinyl DJ sets, creating Audio / Music productions, and graphic works. Collected music from the late 70´s, thru Hip Hop, Electro, House, Techno and other similar styles. The early 80´s where filled with breakdancing and spraypainting everything that was possible around the Stockholm areas. Early musical influences are coming from USA & Germany. \"Remember GrandMaster Flash, DJ Red Alert, African Bambaata and the Soul Sonic Force, BDP, Busy B, Soundmasters, Egyptian Lover, and how about Ice-T in \"Reckless\" by Chris The Glove Taylor (including one of the first great TR-808 and TB-303 programmings ever). That was some amazing stuff back then, and i will never forget when Kraftwerk released Man Machine and Computer world. Then we have Mantronix, Ultramagnetic MC´s, Whoodini, them where great times!\". All this got Cari to start collecting equipment for his own recording studio. International and national releases have been made on; Drumcode and Truesoul records, Code Red, Corb, Proper NYC, Harthouse, FFRR, JakPot, LoopP and Plumphouse Records, Missile, Jericho, Influence, Tortured, and Electrix Records UK, Primevil, Svek, Planet Rhythm, Tronic music, Experimental NYC, Ohm Records / Telegram, Analog USA. Own label projects include; Djupt, Grundtakt, Trainspotters Nightmare, AudioMekanixc, Audio Pollution, KGB, Direkt, Kaun trax, SpiritFuel, toghether with Hybrid Productions as the main platform. In 1998 a legal twist started between Hybrid Productions and Awex INC owned POP group called \"Hybrid\", wich resulted into a name change - thus the dot after the H in H. Productions.

Notable releases:
Vet Dom Som For Att [H. Productions]
The Architect [Truesoul]
Reverted Collection [H. Productions]
Urthur [Kaun Trax]
Reverted/Aterkommen [H. Productions]
0-1-11 vs. Lekebusch [H. Productions]

also records under the following aliases:
Agent Orange, Aurin, Braincell, Cerebus, Crushed Insect, Fred, Fred To The Midwest, Kari Pekka, Magenta, Mr. Barth, Mr. James Barth, Mystic Letter K, Phunkey Rhythm Doctor, Rotortype, Rubberneck, Shape Changer, Sir Jeremy Augustus Hutley Of Granith Hall, Szerementa Programs, Szerementa:Prg, Vector, Yakari, Aaron Phiri & Cari Lekebusch, Audio Mekcanicks, Augery Process, Cari Lekebusch & Abi Lönnberg, Cari Lekebusch & Alexi Delano, Cari Lekebusch & Fred Giannelli, Cari Lekebusch & Joel Mull, Cari Lekebusch & Thomas Krome Mot Den Osynliga Handen, Cre8ors, David Roiseux and Cari Lekebusch, DJ Shufflemaster & Cari Lekebusch, Kozmic Gurt Brodhas, Mark Williams feat. Cari Lekebusch, ODC Vs Cari Lekebusch, Parallax (3), Puente Latino, Pump Panel, Ron Maney & Cari Lekebusch, Steady Motion, Strong Accents

[joshchrans]

http://stat.discogs.com/A/27-001.jpg
CARI LEKEBUSCH

Capricorn born 1972, homebase Stockholm, Sweden. Performing Vinyl DJ sets, creating Audio / Music productions, and graphic works. Collected music from the late 70´s, thru Hip Hop, Electro, House, Techno and other similar styles. The early 80´s where filled with breakdancing and spraypainting everything that was possible around the Stockholm areas. Early musical influences are coming from USA & Germany. \"Remember GrandMaster Flash, DJ Red Alert, African Bambaata and the Soul Sonic Force, BDP, Busy B, Soundmasters, Egyptian Lover, and how about Ice-T in \"Reckless\" by Chris The Glove Taylor (including one of the first great TR-808 and TB-303 programmings ever). That was some amazing stuff back then, and i will never forget when Kraftwerk released Man Machine and Computer world. Then we have Mantronix, Ultramagnetic MC´s, Whoodini, them where great times!\". All this got Cari to start collecting equipment for his own recording studio. International and national releases have been made on; Drumcode and Truesoul records, Code Red, Corb, Proper NYC, Harthouse, FFRR, JakPot, LoopP and Plumphouse Records, Missile, Jericho, Influence, Tortured, and Electrix Records UK, Primevil, Svek, Planet Rhythm, Tronic music, Experimental NYC, Ohm Records / Telegram, Analog USA. Own label projects include; Djupt, Grundtakt, Trainspotters Nightmare, AudioMekanixc, Audio Pollution, KGB, Direkt, Kaun trax, SpiritFuel, toghether with Hybrid Productions as the main platform. In 1998 a legal twist started between Hybrid Productions and Awex INC owned POP group called \"Hybrid\", wich resulted into a name change - thus the dot after the H in H. Productions.

Notable releases:
Vet Dom Som For Att [H. Productions]
The Architect [Truesoul]
Reverted Collection [H. Productions]
Urthur [Kaun Trax]
Reverted/Aterkommen [H. Productions]
0-1-11 vs. Lekebusch [H. Productions]

also records under the following aliases:
Agent Orange, Aurin, Braincell, Cerebus, Crushed Insect, Fred, Fred To The Midwest, Kari Pekka, Magenta, Mr. Barth, Mr. James Barth, Mystic Letter K, Phunkey Rhythm Doctor, Rotortype, Rubberneck, Shape Changer, Sir Jeremy Augustus Hutley Of Granith Hall, Szerementa Programs, Szerementa:Prg, Vector, Yakari, Aaron Phiri & Cari Lekebusch, Audio Mekcanicks, Augery Process, Cari Lekebusch & Abi Lönnberg, Cari Lekebusch & Alexi Delano, Cari Lekebusch & Fred Giannelli, Cari Lekebusch & Joel Mull, Cari Lekebusch & Thomas Krome Mot Den Osynliga Handen, Cre8ors, David Roiseux and Cari Lekebusch, DJ Shufflemaster & Cari Lekebusch, Kozmic Gurt Brodhas, Mark Williams feat. Cari Lekebusch, ODC Vs Cari Lekebusch, Parallax (3), Puente Latino, Pump Panel, Ron Maney & Cari Lekebusch, Steady Motion, Strong Accents



AMEN

[Cyrus Ramsey]

Oh and Lee it was 1265 paid and 350 got in for free. Now on a 1200 person break even. Multiply 65 by 30 thats $1950. Phuk Bed recieved 30% of that which is $585 now split between two people thats $290. That didn\'t even cover the gas and travel expenses for all the promotion I did not to mention the 5 months that went in to it. Now you know exactly what went down anyone else wanna bust our balls. Now if we did away witht the guest list thats almost another $11,000 we could just take away the guest list which means everyone pays and then everyone gets paid just a suggestion.

Whateva Will, yo ass needs to be calling me so we\'s can both get paid.

816-455-5679

[Cyrus Ramsey]

Ohhh and about the getting paid and sueing thing. If you take somebody to court and you win the lawsuite and they dont have any money you can get money every time they get paid from their job. The goverment can take cash directly from their bank account or from their paycheck.

So in the end you git yo shit. Unless of course you agree to go on one of those stupid tv court shows that really dont mean anything in a real court of law. The man couldnt give a fuck less what the hell Judy has to say.

[synthetic]

ooo some one sue me i wana be on tv!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! :D

[edw!n]

Bitch better have my money!!! :P

[breakbotix]

Ohhh and about the getting paid and sueing thing. If you take somebody to court and you win the lawsuite and they dont have any money you can get money every time they get paid from their job. The goverment can take cash directly from their bank account or from their paycheck.

So in the end you git yo shit. Unless of course you agree to go on one of those stupid tv court shows that really dont mean anything in a real court of law. The man couldnt give a fuck less what the hell Judy has to say.



all i was sayin was that after spending loads of cash on an attorney and waiting a year, its not really worth the trouble. i\'m sure you could get the cash...
its still a waste of time and money.

[idontcare.com]

alright, here\'s my take on this.....

It obvoius promoters are making some money. You can\'t pull in over 1,000 kids charging $20 - $30 or one headliner pulling in like 500 kids a head and not make something. I\'ve thrown plenty of parties and if we ever pulled in those numbers I\'d be fucking rich. Perhaps you should check your priorities cuz the way it sounds you\'re spending money you don\'t have to pay for things you don\'t need. I\'ve always managed to pay every dj local or not. Of course there was this one time but if you only have a one time then so be it just don\'t make it a habit. This isn\'t directed at any one promotional group or anything. So don\'t think that. But seriously.... it\'s like pulling fucking teeth to get $100 out of people. shit, $50...... a guest list slot.... a couple of free drinks. Listen, we\'re not trying to be greedy but shit...... dj\'ing is expensive. You want to hear me play make it worth my while or I\'ll just sit home and invite some friends over and play to 5 people that are appreciative and have a good time then play some shitty 10pm slot and pay to do it. We don\'t need your \"job\", We don\'t need you to get our names out in KC any more. Parties once were nothing BUT locals, with out us there is no party. I\'m just saying abuse it and lose it.


svs

Nightbreed
mw-dnb.com
sublunaryam.com

[Edited on 24/6/2004 by svsonline]

[r0t8]

You want to hear me play make it worth my while or I\'ll just sit home and invite some friends over and play to 5 people that are appreciative and have a good time then play some shitty 10pm slot and pay to do it. We don\'t need your \"job\"

yea exactly. that\'s half the reason i haven\'t played out in like 3 years. i\'m fine with playing for myself forever, personally. myself or a few thousand people... makes no difference to me. it\'s still spinning records either way. =)

[Rolliepollie]

I\'ll play for gas money from Manhattan and a 12 pack of Red Stripe.

fin.

[Cyrus Ramsey]

Ok here is a bit of a lesson for some of you who dont really know what it takes to trow an event.

This is the basic logistics for an event i threw in August of 97 called Orbit 1 in Topeka. All figures are rounded up. All figures are from 1997 prices.

Cash Out:

Venue - $1500
Sound - $500
Lights - $300
Security - $400
City Permits $150
Dj John Kelly - $1000
Dj R-Fresh - $500
Other Various Locals and Regional Dj\'s - $500
Dj Hotels - $250
Dj Food - $100
Dj Transpertation (from KCI to Topeka and from hotels to venue and back to KCI) - $150
Johnny On The Spot (outdoor venue) - $100
Generaor Rental - $300
Various Other Expenses - $275
Promotions (Flyers, Radio, etc...) $500
TOTAL - $6775

Cash In:

850 People paid $10 to enter - $8500

Grand total of money made was $1725 which was split 4 ways between each promoter leaving me with only about $430 which was just used as starting money for the next party. I never spent a single dime of it on myself. The party was shut down by the Topeka Police department around 2:30am thus demoshing any possible idea of earning more money from late stragglers.

So ya, party promoters makes tons of money. Tons of it. Now days dj\'s cost more, venues cost more, everything cost more. I went as cheap as i could then. For Orbit 1 I had 20 dj\'s playing, and i only offered to actually pay 11 of those dj\'s. I played my own party and of course i didnt even pay myself.

I have made goobs of money at some of my events, I have more or less broke even at sveral of them, and I have lost my ass more times then all those put together.

The amount of work that it actually takes to throw an event is tremdous. People on here are constantly bitching about who should and shouldnt get paid. Well hands down, if a promoter tells you he is going to pay you, then by all means get your money. However if you were not told that oyu would be getting paid and you didnt talk to the promoter about it, then don\'t expect shit.

After al the work it takes to throw a successful event, promoters are usually worn out and stressed out when the show is finally over. All that work they put in to get the whole thing organized and to have it go off smoothly counts for something. Shouldnt the promoter get paid as well?

I probly spent at least 200 to 300 hours prior to Orbit working to get the party squared away. I worked. And I walked away with $430 which i didnt even award myself with. Dj\'s got paid, other promoters got paid, at least a little bit. I spent my $430 on flyers and other ends for a smaller party i threw at Gee Coffee later that year. And I lost money on that party.

Their are some seriously money hungry prooters out there that want nothing but to makes hard cash at shows and thats all they care about. And their are some promoters who do it for the love of the music and the smiles of happy party goers at a good show. I was the later. Their are promoters here in KC who are the later too, and their are those who really really don\'t know what they are doing. I know who the good ones are and i listed them in a previous post in this thread. Some of you who have posted in this thread may need to open your eyes a little wider though and realise its not all about YOU. Their aint no I in team, but from the looks of this thread, at points their aint no WE in team either.

[raverjennee]

I for one, Know all to well what kind of work it takes to throw a quality party. One thing that wasn\'t mentioned in expenses was some of the stupid shit Djs can ask for. I booked a Dj (To remain unnamed) who wanted the tables set up with innertubes around them, a private VIP area, 4 different kinds of beer and two different sodas, he wanted to be completely left alone and not even allow staff in his VIP area. I have had Djs ask for imo\'s pizza, to be picked up in an SUV, Drugs, A Jacuzzi suite, and one cost no one thinks to mention either is how much it costs to fly in live PA eqipment. That shit is hella expensive. I dunno if lighting was mentioned either. Not to mention snacks, candy, red bull, and water. Months of planning, phone bills higher than anyone wants to pay, and a shit ton of things that go wrong and end up costing you twice as much as you initially planned. There is always an expense that pops up and costs you more money. It sux.
But - you do it b/c you love it. And I haven\'t heard a promoter mention one of the best parts from all that work.... You all know what i\'m talking abou too.... The natural high you get when it\'s 2 am, the dance floor is packed, kids are clapping and screaming, and you know for one night you made a shit ton of kids happy. That alone is payment for months worth of work. That\'s my \"E\".
There has to be a middle ground found somewhere, or this scene is gonna go to shit. STL\'s scene blows in comparison to what it was 5 years ago. We can keep it alive here if we learn from their mistakes. Together, we have created a scene or a \"subculutre\" if you will, where people of all backgrounds can bond and get to know each other through an awesome medium. It would be a shame to lose that. SO many of these kids need this subculture b/c it is the only place they are allowed to express themselves freely without judgement, and be accepted. Let\'s keep it alive, and keep open minds.. Try to be receptive to other\'s points of view even if they don\'t match your own. Isn\'t that what this was all built on anyway? Just another opinion,
Shiney

[PHUK_BED]

Phukin Preach It. Now jenee i have to say I feel ya. I\'ve always in my head thought it was a little cheesy. But at around 2am at a party threw I always get right in the middle of the dance floor face the opposite dirrection of everyone else and then I busta groove for about ten min. then I go back to puting out fires. But that 10 min its the sole reason I throw partys for that ten min. of vibe and energy.

[PHUK_BED]

Sorry just thought of somthing else. Just one quik ?. You mean to tell me that playing in front 100s or 1000s of people all danceing and feeling your music doesn\'t get you off? Then why do you do it? Isn\'t that what being a musician is about? Expressing your self through music so people feel your energy. I mean honestly, I envy all of you. I wish I was musicly inclined. I would love to feel that. But I just have to settle with being the gut behind the scenes cause I\'ve tryed trust me and its just not gonna happen. Just my 2 pennys :D

[phocas]

I just have one question....

Where is that photo that SydeBurnz always posts up about arguing on the internet and special olympic?

Somebody told me I should read this thread for it\'s \"humor\" value. UGH..... what a waste of time... I don\'t even see any humor in this.

[Benito Hussolini]

Its not supposed to be funny...anyone who found it funny is a fucking MORON.

We aren\'t arguing on the internet, we are having a discussion about things that are important to some people. Obviously not you ;)

This is a serious issue we confronted, not just bullshit raver banter like 99.9% of everything else on here. Actually I would go so far as to say this thread, along with the Angel Benefit party are the only two meaningful things I have ever read on here. Period.

Todd, I know you haven\'t put the time into djing like many people in this thread have, but after you do it will all make sense....

@Will, vaild point. However, that is why noobies play for free, because they haven\'t played a crowd before and the rush is worth it. However becomes about something more after you have paid your dues. It is never just about the money...nothing in life is...but the money represents something. Respect. Thats all.

If you look carefully, you notice none of the djs are asking for exorbinate amounts of cash. We are just looking for that token of respect/goodwill that has been long forgotten it seems.

Shit, the last promoter that thanked me for playing was the last one to pay me. Zach Smith. And for that, I will always respect him.









[Edited on 26/6/2004 by Ben_Fuller]

[synthetic]

...........................................poop... ......................................

[edw!n]

I\'ve gotten really good remarks from people saying how good this topic was, and how right It wasthatr starting this thread. Reality is that us talking about wont change shit.

[Cyrus Ramsey]

Yanno, it doesnt matter if your a noobie dj or not. Even the best, most well payed, and most respected dj\'s in the world play for free sometimes. Chek this article out.

http://www.clevescene.com/issues/2004-06-16/music2.html

[raverjennee]

you can bet your arse he was well respected for that. That\'s just it.. I think this thread is more about Djs not getting the respect they desreve instead of money. Tow more cents fer ya! That was a great article. Thanks RJ!

[joshchrans]

[quote

Shit, the last promoter that thanked me for playing was the last one to pay me. Zach Smith. And for that, I will always respect him. [/quote:37621f7ea5]


Zach is the FUCKING man!

Best promoter in the midwest hands down. No offense to anyone else, Zach just treats EVERYONE he books properly.

/end

[r0t8]

Sorry just thought of somthing else. Just one quik ?. You mean to tell me that playing in front 100s or 1000s of people all danceing and feeling your music doesn\'t get you off? Then why do you do it? Isn\'t that what being a musician is about?

spinning and making music to me is like drawing. i\'ve been drawing all my life, but i\'m not taking it out for show and tell. knowwhatimsayin? =)

[phocas]

must not get sucked in... must not get sucked in..... too late.... i got sucked in....

Well Ben, the part that we decided was particularly amusing was that nobody is attempting to put anything together, everyone\'s just bitching on a message forum...... THAT is humorous.

So.... c\'est la vie... I suppose that I am a \"Moron\" then, but it just seems to me that this is something that needs to be discussed and agreed on collectively among DJs (beyond the eyes and ears of promoters and the public). Once it\'s agreed upon, and if everyone sticks to the agreement, if you get screwed by a promoter, then add them to a boycott list until some sort of agreement can be made through mediation or arbitration. It\'s kind of the same idea behind \"trade unions\" and \"strikes\". If you want to really make something happen, then everyone should get together on it and make it happen. But it won\'t happen if everyone just does whatever they hell they want (which happens a lot).

Hmmmmm.... this looks like a good idea for a story (or more). Hit me up if you are interested in pursuing this matter.

the last promoter that thanked me for playing was the last one to pay me. Zach Smith. And for that, I will always respect him.

ahhh... somtimes all you need is a show of appreciation to turn everything around, eh?

indeed. how true, how true.

ok.....
that\'s my two comments for the week...
back to lurk mode.....

[r0t8]

must not get sucked in... must not get sucked in..... too late.... i got sucked in....

There really is no need for mediation, Mr. Moore. ;)

[Rolliepollie]

shit. Zack Smith fuckin thanked me for coming out to a party that wasn\'t even his... He is the fuckin man.

He also plays for like 150 bucks, and drives out and uses that cash for gas AND hotel expenses... and he is a better DJ than 99% of you fuckers who are bitching here.

you deserve to get paid what you are worth... the trouble is, you aren\'t worth as much as you think you are... hence the bitching.

[r0t8]

shit. Zack Smith fuckin thanked me for coming out to a party that wasn\'t even his... He is the fuckin man.

He also plays for like 150 bucks, and drives out and uses that cash for gas AND hotel expenses... and he is a better DJ than 99% of you fuckers who are bitching here.

sounds like you want zack to stick it in your butt.

[PHUK_BED]

II\"VE GOOOT AAN IIIDEEA!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! !!!!!
An experiment if you will. Stay tuned for more info :D hehehehehehehe

[bert]

$300 + travel and accomidations.


nuf

[Edited on 27/6/2004 by bert]

[andrewboie]

http://stat.discogs.com/R/35281-001.gif

Dave Tarrida - Globus Mix Vol. 6 - Dave Tarrida Plays Records
http://www.discogs.com/release/35281

review by 0x00:
Had I followed the hype when buying techno I might not have left the related camps they call \'minimal\' and \'glitch\'. From the deep dark ponds of later Monolake to the grainy dub of Vlad Delay to Richie Hawtin\'s hypnotic mixes, undoubtedly ears and minds could be long held captive on this stuff with only occasional respite (though I might wonder at the mental state of one who would choose such prolonged captivity). I\'m very happy that I looked further (or, geographically, nearer – 2 minutes walk up the road to Bruntsfield, as it turns out). For there is more to techno, and it\'s still for the cool kids...

I want to call it Scottish Techno after Tarrida, Neil Landstrumm and Tobias Schmidt (sorry, Begg and Vogel, your Londonshireness is outnumbered) but that name has been claimed for a kind of gabber. So henceforth let this be known as Chubby Techno. Some elements of Scottish bouncy techno and rave era hardcore are clearly present: often the fast bonnggg bonnggg bongggg bonnggg bass kicks; the sirens; and the whooshing, buzzing and invariably panning hoover variations. Over and above the nature of the components, though, is the feeling of largeness and exuberance, and also, I\'m pretty sure, cheekiness. That\'s chiefly what separates chubby techno from the better-known, po-faced European variants. There is a supreme confidence that allows them to be happy and witty and good with girls whilst, amazingly, not making crap party music. If I ever went to a club to hear techno, this is how I would most like it. Techno with a broad smile on its lips and devilment in its eyes.

Dave Tarrida\'s Globus Mix encapsulates all that and has great mixing to boot, to the extent that it\'s hard to single out highlights. Maybe Mick Wills\' \"Kill! Kill!\", The Mover\'s \"Frontal Sickness\", Subhead\'s \"In the Blue Corner\" and Si Begg\'s \"Sound equipment\" most impress me this minute, but that\'ll change tommorow and I\'d gladly hear more from any of these artists. My rating of this went from 3 when I first bought it to 4 after a few listens to 5 today, a year later. That\'s the winning confidence I mentioned.

[raverjennee]

^^^^Did this message make it to the wrong thread? I\'m thinkin\' his had nothing to do with the matter at hand.... Maybe i\'m just tired.. who knows.....

[andrewboie]

[quote

Shit, the last promoter that thanked me for playing was the last one to pay me. Zach Smith. And for that, I will always respect him.


Zach is the FUCKING man!

Best promoter in the midwest hands down. No offense to anyone else, Zach just treats EVERYONE he books properly.

/end [/quote:4aad660865]

TRUE THAT! zack knows how to take care of DJs.

[andrewboie]

^^^^Did this message make it to the wrong thread? I\'m thinkin\' his had nothing to do with the matter at hand.... Maybe i\'m just tired.. who knows.....

ah but you see....it has EVERYTHING to do with the matter at hand....

[raverjennee]

Now that I re-read it after my nap (bangin under the stars was bangin\' until 7am...) I get it. I was just tired. Note to self \"self-sleep before reading stuff!\"

[phelyne]

well, i have to say this has been a great venting session for everyone from promotors, to djs, to friends and fans.

HOWEVER.

whats the verdict?

for this to get resolved between all angles and sides, there must be a compromise from EVERYONE. we ALL want to get paid. we ALL get the rush and excitement out of either putting together an event people have fun at or performing for a crowd that goes ape shit over our sets.

i want to see some progress.

all the bitching aside, we have all vented now.

its time for some action in the right direction. come up with a plan.

my idea for a plan is fairly simple. djs will start helping the promotors market and draw fans by doing more self promotion and the djs who draw the bigger amounts of fans will get paid a percentage of what they draw. every dj will get a flat fee for the timeslot played and if the party loses money but fees are agreed to, they still get paid but maybe on a like payment plan. like 10 bucks a week or someshit.i know what its like to lose money. but a deal is a deal.

i mean, wouldnt that be a great thing for ALL OF US to be able to live off of our hard work and extreme passion? it takes group effort to make that happen. individual resources arent shit compared to group resources.

there are many ways to make everyone happy in this situation. at least happier, but i dont see yall stepping up work this out. i see everyone ranting, which i have done plenty plenty of, but point being. ranting doesnt creat change. ranting only brings issues to the open that have been ignored and neglected for a long period of time. ranting is like fossil excavating. eventually the entire dinosaur is exposed. but its still dead and meaningless unless you put the pieces back together and give it a place to live on. actions make change.

what are the promotors prepared to do to change this conflict and what the djs prepared to do? both sides needa think of something.
tension is too great and has been for too long. ive been in this scene locally long enough to see it die off more than 3 times. i think rj can back me up on that. its not cuz it CANT happen here. but its cuz people make no effort to improve it here. THIS IS A PRIME LOCATION FOR SOMETHING BIG TO BLOW UP IF YALL WOULD STOP CONVINCING YOURSELVES THAT \"ITS JUST KANSAS CITY\" how many other places started from dirt some of the biggest movements in the world? every single place was started from nothing. build it and they will come as the movie field of dreams preaches. its the truth.

and about the comment you made above rj, about for some people its only about them it seems. maybe im wrong in saying this, as i could be and just let me know if am, but you of all people should know what its like to be a dj for hire who gets trampled on repeatedly because people just dont repsect the fact you have sacrificed everything else you COULD HAVE BEEN just do what really makes you happy? there are djs here that have been DONATING their time, energy, equipment, mental stability, and money, repeatedly over and over again, to get no more than a bottle of water they had to pay 3 bucks for. thats it. the djs who are established here are because they have put in their own footwork to get bookings and fans. but, a lot of them are not being respected for that whatsoever.

i think guest lists need to be TRIMMED WAY THE FUCK DOWN. if i went to one of yalls parties and you told me to pay to get in, i would pay. to me, thats showing support as a fellow scenester. promotors gotta make they money back so they can do another one. just like showing a local dj support is by paying them something. i have gotten in for free to several events. i apprecaite all the times you let me in for free, means a lot. but, i would rather pay to get in so that my hommies who are booked can get paid so they can buy some records that ive never heard because im going to see them, not the played out ass headliners. and as a dj, a lot of headliners are played out to me because im very familiar with them. doesnt mean they arent good picks, but it means they dont appeal to me. of course, i am much more than a fan. so, my opinion in that area is way biased. either way.

whos down for a revolution? like a real revolution where shit actually gets accomplished. we are the hippies of our time. we need to be strong like them and make a stand for what we believe in. naw mean?

phelyne

[andrewboie]

i have a better solution

http://andrewboie.com/website/destroytrance.gif

[phelyne]

i have a better solution

http://andrewboie.com/website/destroytrance.gif

haha, trance is one of the backbones of our culture.

i dont have to like it, but for me to bitch about trance and not give it a big up would be just as disrespectful as anything else.

BIG UP TRANCE. (just dont expect me to take hours of it, i can only handle about 15 minutes of good trance, sorry.)

next suggestion please.

:yltype:

[andrewboie]

i have a better solution

http://andrewboie.com/website/destroytrance.gif

i dont have to like it, but for me to bitch about trance and not give it a big up would be just as disrespectful as anything else.


oh, i disagree

i think, for instance, if i peed in somebody\'s cheerios, that would be more disrespectful than making fun of a bastard genre sounding like watered-down cheesy techno. i eat trance DJs for breakfast. i\'m even crueler to them than *skool breaks DJs.

[andrewboie]

http://stat.discogs.com/A/1360-004.jpg
ADAM BEYER

Adam Beyer became dedicated to the fascinating world of rhythm early on. After playing the drums as a teenager his obsession turned to the decks. In 1990 he bought his first set of turntables and started spinning a wide range of hiphop, hiphouse, acid and techno at local parties and clubs. Beyer soon learned how to blend his sets in a thoughtfull and highly focused way, a talent that has now developed into his trademark style. In 92 Fellow school friend Peter Benisch introduced Beyer to the sampler , a year later they got their first record deal with New York based Direct Drive. After finishing school in 1995, Beyer started work at the Planet Rhythm record store while releasing some tracks under a variety of names and continually djing all over Scandinavia. Adam Beyer sites Drumcodes 1 (Planet Rhythm 1995) as the first record to define his style; hard, percussive and loop oriented. This 12\" names Beyer´s future label and was soon followed by his critically acclaimed debut album Decoded (Planet Rhythm 1996). His need to create the perfect dj tool gave rise to the launch of the Drumcode label allowing him total musical freedom. The label´s strong concept and high production levels meant it enjoyed immediate success. After six releases Beyer launched his second label Code Red focusing on a slightly softer side of techno. Code Red finished with its 10 th and final release Stand Down (Code Red 1999) which was a compilation of remixes from various international artists. His production skills soon brought Beyer to the attention of djs worldwide and global bookings soon followed. His meteoric rise has been cited as one of the catalysts for Swedish techno´s current influence. He pinpoints the Stockholm sound as being closely linked to his network of friends in the city aswell as the triumvirate of himself, Joel Mull and Cari Lekebusch. After many releases and remixes on various labels he launched the second album Protechtion (Drumcode 1999). While the market was being flooded with monoton loop oriented techno Beyer worked on strengthening the arrangements that characterised his earlier works, aswell as adding melodic strings. Still with a clear focus on the dance floor. The same year Adam Beyer and Cari Lekebusch linked up to create a stunning live act first witnessed in London to instant acclaim. The act created the intense feeling of a creative dj set while the duo played back to back mixing their production styles.

http://www.drumcode.se
http://www.discogs.com/artist/Adam_Beyer

[joshchrans]

i have a better solution

http://andrewboie.com/website/destroytrance.gif

i dont have to like it, but for me to bitch about trance and not give it a big up would be just as disrespectful as anything else.


oh, i disagree

i think, for instance, if i peed in somebody\'s cheerios, that would be more disrespectful than making fun of a bastard genre sounding like watered-down cheesy techno. i eat trance DJs for breakfast. i\'m even crueler to them than *skool breaks DJs.



Hey Andrew... TECHNO IS JUST TRANCE WITHOUT THE BLEEPY SHIT!!!







BWAAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHA




rave on

[JonBoy!]

the verdict: this thread is lame.

you are found guilty of being whiny bitches and will be fined 5 phat records for every reply.

Most of the djs who have responded to this thread get to play out fairly often. I think you should be happy with that. You get vip\'d to all sorts of parties and all you do is show your ugly faces, bitch about the headliners, hand out your stupid flyers, and get drunk. Most of you I\'ve never seen lift a speaker or work the door at a party or brought your turntables out to a house or afterparty or anything to actually ccontribute valuably to the scene. You\'re all to convineced or your own glory get down to the nitty gritty parts of making a party happen. You show up, play other people\'s music and expect to be treated like a god.

Some people bust thier asses and support clubnights, crews, and other djs and hope that mabye if the stars align just right they might get to play a few records outside of thier bedroom and make some people dance.


SO you know what.......

I hope you lunkheads really do go ahead and start demanding $100 a gig!!!!

DO IT!!!!!!!!!

Live up to your high minded snobbery and do it.

Then maybe when your skewed princlples show for the selfish person yoou are there might a few open Dj slots for those of us down in the trenches.


Jon Nuskool

[edw!n]

Johnny quit your know it all attitude. You\'re trying to call people out like noone has provided shit to this scene.

People see paying locals as taboo, like we all need to suck promoters dicks for booking us at their heavenly events. Fact is by paying not only Djs but everyone involved in an event, all you doing is putting all the money back in the scene. Dj\'s would afford to buy more records, or even a pair of turntables, and then you would have better Locals.
Im I the only one who sees this? or am I blinbed by my greed?

[phocas]

sadly edwin... i don\'t think jon is \"calling anyone out\", only serving up a good healthy dose of reality...

[edw!n]

sadly edwin... i don\'t think jon is \"calling anyone out\", only serving up a good healthy dose of reality...

only thing real here is that we all know what the problem is and we dont do shit to solve it.

[phocas]

precisely

sadly edwin... i don\'t think jon is \"calling anyone out\", only serving up a good healthy dose of reality...

only thing real here is that we all know what the problem is and we dont do shit to solve it.

[Cyrus Ramsey]

i hate this thread.

[r0t8]

yea it\'s kinda like the taste in your mouth after a reflux belch

[mikemcgrath]

yes, but very insightful really.........

[edw!n]

i hate this thread.

Im sure it hates you too :P

[edw!n]

:D

[andrewboie]

for those of you just tuning in now, here is a summary of this thread:

http://www.ishkur.com/captions/74.jpg

thank you and have a pleasant day.

[Mr.Penguin]

OK its 6:30 I\'ve been up all night and my view of what has happened in the scene in KC is that the promoters and the ravers have gotten lazy. Put a deejay up on the decks for 2 hours and that will prove who is and isn\'t a good deejay. The parties have been transformed into a meeting of the masses vs. the quality, Digweed has traded for 4 promoters who have had their picture in Mixmag. Once again this is my view and I believe that this will continue to happen until we start being kinda classy if you know what I mean.

-Jared Maib-

[Bucho]

2 hours is cake. add another two and THEN you might see what happens.

[tribalzendancer]

damn, did i just spend a half an hour reading just half of this thread?

crazy,

how about we go ahead and have that best dj competition again!? woot! woot!

[edw!n]

damn, did i just spend a half an hour reading just half of this thread?

crazy,

how about we go ahead and have that best dj competition again!? woot! woot!

how about we have the brokest dj competition

[JonBoy!]

damn, did i just spend a half an hour reading just half of this thread?

crazy,

how about we go ahead and have that best dj competition again!? woot! woot!

how about we have the brokest dj competition


I win.